Israel

[Airbusdriver]

This thread is about man's inhumanity to man. If people get uncomfortable about Sinn Fein being mentioned then tough shit. Sinn Fein openly suppport Hamas, which the last time I checked is a terrorist organisation. No person has the right to abduct, rape and torture innocent civilians. Looking at the videos of that poor German mother being dragged naked through the streets of Gaza yesterday was shocking. It reminded me of the Sinn Fein/IRA savages who hacked two soldiers to death in Belfast in the eighties. Supporting such acts is vile and a reminder of who and what Sinn Fein really are.

[Stephanie]

This thread is about man's inhumanity to man. If people get uncomfortable about Sinn Fein being mentioned then tough shit. Sinn Fein openly suppport Hamas, which the last time I checked is
a terrorist organisation. No person has the right to abduct, rape and torture innocent civilians. Looking at the videos of that poor German mother being dragged naked through the streets of Gaza yesterday was shocking. It reminded me of the Sinn Fein/IRA savages who hacked two soldiers to death in Belfast in the eighties. Supporting such acts is vile and a reminder of who and what Sinn Fein really are.

One people’s terrorist is another people’s freedom fighter .

How do you think Israel was founded ?

Got its roots via terrorist campaign against the people already in that land .



Fleeing Jews from WWII Europe flooded in : they were promised their Own country ;

and they went about Taking that land from the ones already there .

: And continue to do so with the illegal settlements .


Do I agree with terrorist methods - from either or Any side ? No .

But also a downtrodden and abused people at one point may snap .

I just recently learned about Tone Wolfe : by the English he was a terrorist .

By the Irish he was a freedom fighter , no ?

[Marko1980]

This thread is about man's inhumanity to man. If people get uncomfortable about Sinn Fein being mentioned then tough shit. Sinn Fein openly suppport Hamas, which the last time I checked is a terrorist organisation. No person has the right to abduct, rape and torture innocent civilians. Looking at the videos of that poor German mother being dragged naked through the streets of Gaza yesterday was shocking. It reminded me of the Sinn Fein/IRA savages who hacked two soldiers to death in Belfast in the eighties. Supporting such acts is vile and a reminder of who and what Sinn Fein really are.

If you cant talk about the suffering on both sides, then youre being inhumane.
And if you think Terrorist organisations start for the laugh then you need to pick up some history books, especially on Northern Ireland.
The main point for me is if someone sees the latest bloody incident in the 50 year long middle east conflict and thinks about Sinn Fein then they dont get the nuance of the conflict at all.
No logical person defends terrorism but you can understand that it doesnt happen for no apparent reason.
For reference, in the last 20 years 12k Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli forces and 900 Israeli civilians have been killed.
Lets call it what it is, terrorism vs state sponsored terrorism but only one generates outrage.

[AmyTantraMassage]

If you cant talk about the suffering on both sides, then youre being inhumane.
And if you think Terrorist organisations start for the laugh then you need to pick up some history books, especially on Northern Ireland.
The main point for me is if someone sees the latest bloody incident in the 50 year long middle east conflict and thinks about Sinn Fein then they dont get the nuance of the conflict at all.
No logical person defends terrorism but you can understand that it doesnt happen for no apparent reason.
For reference, in the last 20 years 12k Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli forces and 900 Israeli civilians have been killed.
Lets call it what it is, terrorism vs state sponsored terrorism but only one generates outrage.

It's not terrorism though is it? It's genocide and ethnic cleansing. The Israelis have never tried to hide from that. Same as the Irish genocide was renamed the Irish famine.

[Marko1980]

It's not terrorism though is it? It's genocide and ethnic cleansing. The Israelis have never tried to hide from that. Same as the Irish genocide was renamed the Irish famine.

I agree with you Amy, ethnic cleansing i would see as the goal. State sponsored terrorism is the method.
And this will sound contentious but I think I know enough about Irish history to say it. An Gorta Mór wasnt a genocide.
Did our government sit back and let it all play out so as not to affect the free market, yes. Did people not do more because they were racist towards Irish people, of course. Did they care that Irish people were dying? Of course not. But they didnt plan the blight or start it. They just didnt help in any way when it happened.

This isnt me sticking up for the Brits, far from it.
And to stress, what the goverment did was willfully watch their citizens starve to death in the name of the economy, its atrocious but not genocide.

The reason id always debate this one is that a lot of people who call the famine a genocide are the ones who perpetuate the myth of Irish slavery and equating it to the transatlantic slave trade when we all know indentured servitude is not the same as chattel slavery.

We can acknowledge a terrible thing was done to us without comparing it to the holocaust.

[AmyTantraMassage]

I agree with you Amy, ethnic cleansing i would see as the goal. State sponsored terrorism is the method.
And this will sound contentious but I think I know enough about Irish history to say it. An Gorta Mór wasnt a genocide.
Did our government sit back and let it all play out so as not to affect the free market, yes. Did people not do more because they were racist towards Irish people, of course. Did they care that Irish people were dying? Of course not. But they didnt plan the blight or start it. They just didnt help in any way when it happened.

This isnt me sticking up for the Brits, far from it.
And to stress, what the goverment did was willfully watch their citizens starve to death in the name of the economy, its atrocious but not genocide.

The reason id always debate this one is that a lot of people who call the famine a genocide are the ones who perpetuate the myth of Irish slavery and equating it to the transatlantic slave trade when we all know indentured servitude is not the same as chattel slavery.

We can acknowledge a terrible thing was done to us without comparing it to the holocaust.

Not the same. It was a genocide. But the problem with thos country is pride. Wanting to suffer I'm silence rather than admit to being victims. People who claim endangered servitude was the same as being enslaved are mostly racists who use that as an excuse to be hateful. It's easy to pretend to be a victim over something that didn't happen than to admit to being 'weak' and forced to starve whilst they took all the food away. By definition. It was a genocide. Denying it won't make it not true.

I won't touch on the holocaust because that's 1 of the purest forms of racism. Only the white victims are talked about. Its literally acknowledges only European Jews who were killed and to he'll with the equal numbers of none Jews. Just because Hews rule America and can get away with shite. It should be about every single life lost.

[Marko1980]

Not the same. It was a genocide. But the problem with thos country is pride. Wanting to suffer I'm silence rather than admit to being victims. People who claim endangered servitude was the same as being enslaved are mostly racists who use that as an excuse to be hateful. It's easy to pretend to be a victim over something that didn't happen than to admit to being 'weak' and forced to starve whilst they took all the food away. By definition. It was a genocide. Denying it won't make it not true.

I won't touch on the holocaust because that's 1 of the purest forms of racism. Only the white victims are talked about. Its literally acknowledges only European Jews who were killed and to he'll with the equal numbers of none Jews. Just because Hews rule America and can get away with shite. It should be about every single life lost.

We will agree to disagree.
Youre very much in the minority on that one, but plenty of Irish Americans will back you up on the genocide bit.

There has to be intent to call it a genocide, the government didnt manufacture a potato blight.

Again, its not saying it wasnt a heinous act to sit back and watch people die, its definitely as bad but you have to start out to kill people to call it a genocide.

[MidlifeCrisis]

I agree with Stephanie and others that it is unlikely that Israel knew nothing of these attacks in advance, and that there may have been a plan to use them as a basis for "retaliation". Israel's retaliation tend to be far deadlier than the actions they retaliate against.

I don't think they would have allowed it though if they understood the scale. Perhaps they were not surprised by the action, but hugely underestimated its severity?

As usual, their PR machine is framing the situation in their terms, calling it a war in order to justify what now looks like an inevitable land grab.

Elsewhere in the world, governments find combating terrorism very challenging, because international laws do not allow them to put civilian life at risk. Israel do not play by those rules, and never will so long as other nations accept their methods.

[Rooney2808]

Elsewhere in the world, governments find combating terrorism very challenging, because international laws do not allow them to put civilian life at risk. Israel do not play by those rules, and never will so long as other nations accept their methods.

Israel seem to have a free pass to do as they wish, it's hard to fathom.

[Rachel Divine]

I agree with Stephanie and others that it is unlikely that Israel knew nothing of these attacks in advance, and that there may have been a plan to use them as a basis for "retaliation". Israel's retaliation tend to be far deadlier than the actions they retaliate against.

I don't think they would have allowed it though if they understood the scale. Perhaps they were not surprised by the action, but hugely underestimated its severity?

As usual, their PR machine is framing the situation in their terms, calling it a war in order to justify what now looks like an inevitable land grab.

Elsewhere in the world, governments find combating terrorism very challenging, because international laws do not allow them to put civilian life at risk. Israel do not play by those rules, and never will so long as other nations accept their methods.

Maybe I am lacking logic here:

Russia allegedly invades Ukraine and conquer their lands. US stands with Ukraine.
Israel invades Palestine and conquer their lands. US stands with Israel.

Where is the logic on that?!

As far as I can figure out, terrorist groups are born to ''fight'' for a right that has been taken away by others, unrightfully. Hope I explain myself well enough.

I do not defend the death of civilians, nowhere in the world, but I understand that can happen, unfortunately.