Israel

[Westsidex]

This could get messier than Ukraine in terms of sides if it involves other states. For instance China and Israel are ecomonic allies, Turkey are anti Isreal, Syria are an enemy. Saudi are allies. It could get very awkward.

Westside

[Rachel Divine]

I personally feel politics is the second worst thing. For me religion is the biggest problem in the world. Different religions all having their own interpretation of "god's" will and trying to justify acts of brutality based on that interpretation.

Agree.

I think behind the religion is politics and power - they use the religion as an excuse - like the Romans did to conquer, impose etc..

What even now days, people do not realised before Christ, those who call themselves Catholic, were ''pagans''.

Anyway, that's a different topic.

[john40]

I read a very good and interesting point on another forum. The person commentating said for such a militarised state as Israel that can monitor every movement above and below ground and that had infilitrated Hamas at every level, it's very dubious that this was a surprise that they didn't know about.

Having been there I can atest to the high levels of security on every street, 24 hours a day.

He/she also stated a war suits Netanyahu right now as he's not very popular internally and he's trying to push through his highly controversial anti judiciary legislation right now. Him and his right wing government doesn't particularly help things either.

I'm not sure if this is the case but it's an interesting way of looking at it.

I don't agree with violence of any kind and the stories of some of the things Hamas have done in the last 48 hours are barbaric. But the Israelis have been killing Palestinians at will for decades and want to wipe them out. I'm tired saying that the world needs to stand up to them properly. The people of Palestine certainly have had enough. I worry for the innocent people there for where this is all going to end.

[Noregrets]

From today's Sunday Times - a settler/occupier speaks about Hamas:

“They shot people and entered homes, kidnapped people,” said Perry, 36, who was still trapped in a safe room with her husband and their dog on Saturday afternoon. “People shared footage from safety cameras showing it all happen. There were gunshots, screams. The amount of terror and cruelty is beyond compare. It’s like a horror movie.”

The absolute lack of irony is astounding, perhaps she could compare it to what the Israelis do to Palestinians on a daily basis? Try having your house or neighbourhood wiped out by a tank or an F-16 in the blink of an eye. Or armed Israeli 'settlers' showing up to evict you from your house supported by the IDF - the Palestinian's have no safety cameras or safe rooms, they have a daily fight to survive.

Hamas will unfortunately heap more pain on the Palestinians as Israel now has an 'excuse' to go further with it's ethnic cleansing while the world cheers it on and helps fund it, utterly disgusting situation.

Well said Phil

[Marko1980]

Hi Marko1980,

FYI, I lived and worked in N.Ireland at the height of the conflict. I am very familiar with the conflict. I was regularly stopped and searched by the RUC/British Army. I never reacted or gave lip and, to be fair, in return I was never ill-treated and let go on my way when checked out. In later years I was involved with a cross border peace initative. I had plenty of long conversations with former terrorist prisoners and victims. Please don’t assume things about those you are addressing your comments to.

In the N.I conflict 3,500 people were killed. 3,150 of them were killed by terrorists. 350 were killed by the Security Forces.

But back to this thread. Hamas have committed unbelievable atrocities, even worse now than we knew yesterday. Hundreds of innocent people executed whilst simply enjoying music at a peace festival. They are pure and utter scum, no right thinking person would ever support their actions, that’s why I want to vomit when I see Sinn Fein supporting acts like this.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's mine.

When you lived and worked there did you happen to find out what happened prior to the troubles? Pre 1970?
Where catholics who were oppressed, protested and marched peacefully and were battered by the authorities.
The provos had no support until this happened repeatedly and when they got support they turned from a defensive organisation to an offensive one.
Giving catholics equal rights would have mitigated this problem, they were treated terribly.
This is my point, the IRA/Hamas only get oxygen when one side bullies another into the ground.

I am no Sinn Fein fan but they are showing support for the people of Palestine, if you equate that with Hamas then I cant help you.

[Marko1980]

Probably not the place to sort a millennia old problem, between a “how often do you watch porn” thread and an “escorts fan” one.
I don’t even pretend to know the subtle nuances of it but what I will say is that murdering innocent civilians of either faith or nationality is not right, both sides are guilty of that, there is no “good” side here, it’s just a never ending bloodbath funded by Iran and the USA, another proxy war where the losers are the ones who’ve nothing left to lose

I agree with you Tommy, but this is no war.
One side has a nuclear arsenal and one of the most sophisticated militaries in the world, the other has a few rockets and a few shekls from the Iranians.

We will never sort it here though is right.

[GoneShooting]

Yes a horrible situation all around. I can see both sides of the argument. The frustrations & anger of people in Gaza, West Bank etc at their treatment, and also the need for Israel to defend their country from attack.

I spent a few months in Israel around 20 years ago & had ongoing contact with them in years after. For various reasons, I met a lot of Israelis who were high-level in the military with years of serious frontline operational experience, specifically special forces.

What I noticed during my time in Israel from most people that I met was a complete hatred of Arabs & Muslims, and plenty of deogratory comments about them on an ongoing basis. It reminded me very much of bigots up in the North of Ireland, I found it disturbing, and I was glad to get home away from the place.

I really find it hard to understand, considering the terrible experience of Jewish people during the Nazi era, how they pass on not dissimilar treatment to Palestine & Arabs in Gaza etc. Of course I'll be called anti-semetic for saying this.

I do not think there is any solution to the situation at all, it's too ingrained in history and decades of hatred now.

[Stephanie]

I read a very good and interesting point on another forum. The person commentating said

for such a militarised state as Israel that can monitor every movement above and below ground and that had infilitrated Hamas at every level, it's very dubious that this was a surprise that they didn't know about.

Having been there I can atest to the high levels of security on every street, 24 hours a day.

He/she also stated a war suits Netanyahu right now as he's not very popular internally and he's trying to push through his highly controversial anti judiciary legislation right now. Him and his right wing government doesn't particularly help things either.

I'm not sure if this is the case but it's an interesting way of looking at it.

I don't agree with violence of any kind and the stories of some of the things Hamas have done in the last 48 hours are barbaric. But the Israelis have been killing Palestinians at will for decades and want to wipe them out. I'm tired saying that the world needs to stand up to them properly. The people of Palestine certainly have had enough. I worry for the innocent people there for where this is all going to end.

Very good post .

I cannot fathom that Israeli intelligence would not have been aware .

I’ll go further : I find very plausible that Israeli secret forces may have fomented , encouraged ,

- perhaps even armed such atrocious ( but foolhardy ) attempt Just when Bibi’s popularity is waning .



^^^ It’s a play straight out of Arafat’s playbook .

I cannot believe in this day and age of espionage and surveillance , of infiltration of the ‘enemy’ ,

that this attack got Israel by surprise .

Hence my instant reaction : false flag .

It’s atrocious .

Men of vanity and of god-complex to play such games : moving pawns on a chessboard ,

playing with real peoples’ lives :in the moment , and for generations to come / or not come as it may be .


Palestinians stand no chance . I do not believe that even Hamas , would’ve on its own endeavor

such a suicidal ( not only for their active ‘troops’ on the ground but for their Whole people ! ) foray .



Chalk up one more reason why for some people Israel’s ‘ways’ are just not palatable .

In the meantime thousands of innocents will be dying .

I don’t like this world just now .

[Stephanie]

Yes a horrible situation all around. I can see both sides of the argument. The frustrations & anger of people in Gaza, West Bank etc at their treatment, and also the need for Israel to defend their country from attack.

I spent a few months in Israel around 20 years ago & had ongoing contact with them in years after. For various reasons, I met a lot of Israelis who were high-level in the military with years of serious frontline operational experience, specifically special forces.

What I noticed during my time in Israel from most people that I met was a complete hatred of Arabs & Muslims, and plenty of deogratory comments about them on an ongoing basis. It reminded me very much of bigots up in the North of Ireland, I found it disturbing, and I was glad to get home away from the place.

I really find it hard to understand, considering the terrible experience of Jewish people during the Nazi era, how they pass on not dissimilar treatment to Palestine & Arabs in Gaza etc. Of course I'll be called anti-semetic for saying this.

I do not think there is any solution to the situation at all, it's too ingrained in history and decades of hatred now.

/ didn’t read your whole post , just reacting to highlighted x


Perhaps if Israel would not insist on encroaching on its neighbors’ land in the most oppressive ways ,

they might not have a rabid dog at their door !!

Cause - causation - repercussion .

Their other Arab neighbors are living peacefully next door to them :

perhaps because Israel is not taking Their lands .

[AmyTantraMassage]

Before I start. I condemn totally and utterly the horrendous actions of Hamas. I deplor violence on any side.

However, the conditions the Palestinian people have been living under for decades are disgraceful. It's not life, it's not even existence. I can completely understand when they state "they've had enough".

Imagine living in conditions where your daily electricity supply is rationed, you don't have access to clean water. You're sprayed with 'skunk' water (basically sewage water). You can't even travel to hospital without being interrogated and often not getting there to receive treatment. A lot of Palestinian men make an income fishing but yet they can't travel out a certain distance to where they can get more fish because they'll be shot by Israeli soldiers.

You also live under the threat of being told to move out of your home within a few days to make way for settlers and if you don't, the Isrselis will be around to demolish it. They contunue to build settlements despite being told on numerous occasions to cease.

On a trip to Israel in 1991 I travelled to the West Bank. I met some of the most beautiful people and children whom I think a lot of and hope they got to make it to adulthood, something we all take for granted.

Nobody has ever stood up to Israel. The American are pumping billions to them every year. They have stuck the two fingers up to every UN resolution that has been passed.

I don't know where all this is going to end. But just look at any other time there has been an uprising in trouble and look at the loss of life on both sides (I don't want to see anyone die) but there are infinitely more lives lost each time on the Palestinian side.

I hope all this ends soon

Last 75 years not decade.