Criminal law (sexual offences) bill 2014

[Stephanie]

when are these laws coming into practice, have they to be voted in or are they active now, in other words
can we punt this weekend without the fear of these new laws

At this point I think there should be a Sticky on this subject :

Yes you can go and visit the ladies.

No , it is not illegal what you are doing -- for now.

At this point this is a law proposal , a Bill , that will be debated and likely be made into Law sometime in the next year.

So for now , KEEP CALM AND GO ENJOY YOURSELVES.



xx

[wellhungchap]

im going to fill my booties at lunch time.. cant wait to lose the run of myself

[dob]

That's messed up.

So a little girl is raped on an ongoing basis by her grandfather / father / brother , all through her life , all the way to her

late teens , and when she turns 17 and the abuse is still occurring , she can be prosecuted for incest ????? What madness !

The only case where the female could be perceived as a predator is if a mother engages in "carnal knowledge" of her son.

In all other scenarios the female would be a Victim !! To be prosecuted !??


Survivors of incest / adult victims of incest will be much less likely to come forward if they have such thing hanging over them.

Yeay ! More power to the predators !

: Am in equal measure aghast , incredulous , ticked off outraged.

The phrase used is, "with consent" so this scenario (not unheard of ) is a brother and sister that are carrying on a fully consensual sexual relationship would be liable to be imprisioned upto a life sentence, the same sentence that applies for manslaughter.

[Stephanie]

The phrase used is, "with consent" so this scenario (not unheard of ) is a brother and sister that are carrying on a fully consensual sexual relationship would be liable to be imprisioned upto a life sentence, the same sentence that applies for manslaughter.

I was focusing more on the gramps and / or father having a go at a girl child. Or even a brother abusing a little sister.

: A person in a position when another person holds power and authority over them (a parent , boss , prison guard , etc.) ,

is not likely and able to 'give consent' : if they resist the advances (father or boss or custodian , etc. ) their very existence

is jeopardised. Hence all the workplace sexual harassment suits in US : if the boss makes advances and your job depends

on pleasing the boss , are you in a position to give consent ? The answer more often than not , is No.

How could a girl give consent to have 'carnal knowledge' of her own father ? Or grandfather ?

Is this really such a widely occurring phenomenon that it needs to be legislated against ?

At a price to legitimate victims of incest ??


Further to the point , I do not see very many 'females of or older than 17 years of age' willingly consenting to having

sexual relations with their own father or grandfather . Lest they'd been systematically abused as a child younger than 17.

And then it's not consent really , is it ?


As to your take on it : sister and brother having a fully consensual ongoing sexual relationship ?

: Is this really such a widely occurring phenomenon that it needs to be legislated against ?

I think it should be discouraged (if for no other reason than to take into account the health risks posed to any progeny .)

A life sentence behind bars ? Excessive I'd say.

If for whatever reason the couple (the brother and sister) would insist on carrying on even in face of persecution and in

face of prosecution , make birth control a mandatory condition of staying out of jail.

As long as they're willing to not procreate (and possibly produce offspring that will be a burden on the state) , eeww ,

let them be ??


**make birth a control a mandatory condition for staying out of jail. -- but then , of course , sooner or later one or two

such individuals will want to protest their civil liberties etc. , and challenge this stipulation.

: Modern society -- what a wonder , and what a quagmire !

And so , it's prob best to legislate against it to begin with *wry smile lol* xx

[40odd]

I also note no mention of changes to laws re sex workers them selves so I take it that the provisions of the 1993 Act still will apply so soliciting in public places and brothel keeping for sex workings using the same premises will remain as they were.

Also no mention of the more repressive recommendations of the Justice Committee report, eg disabling phone numbers, hammering landlords and hotels, treating the viewing of online escort ads as being the same as view child pornography.

These stipulations normally get added before final version of the bill is put before the house.

[dob]

[/B]

These stipulations normally get added before final version of the bill is put before the house.

Yes, amendments can be made as the legislation goes through the oireachtas. However I imagine that these would be so problematic and the legislation would be very complicated and would likely to be open to challenges on civil liberties grounds.

[Kilkenny sex mad addict]

This is just a draft scheme this is not an official bill and it could take two or three years to become an official bill and another year or 2 to become an act

[Curvaceous Kate]

This legislation is way worse news for sex workers than clients.

It appears that two girls working together will STILL be criminalised . A €500 fine for 1st offence in the highly unlikely situation that you'll get caught.A €1,000 fine for subsequent catch if dumb enough to get caught.

Sex workers ARE deliberately targeted here ,not clients.

Not quite. It's up to €500 on a first offense. That means it will not exceed 500. It doesn't mean it will be 500. The same with the other one. It's maximum penalty of €1000. It does not mean that is the penalty that would be given.

I think it would be wise to have some funds put aside for something like this, so it can be paid quickly if you do get fined, but it's likely to be much less than the maximum.

The whole thing is about fining people. When did charging people money ever stop them from doing what they want? How is that going to help trafficked victims? It is nonsensical, unless you believe it is there to disrupt the lives of sex workers and scare people into stopping. It won't work.

[wnolan1992]

You are right Kate, it won't work. We fine people for speeding, but people still speed. It is a revenue generator for the govt.

It will be the same with this, the police will issue fines to those they know won't be able to fight. Again handy money.

[dan8808]

Any ideas how they can actually prove anything?
I would not pay any fine if they don't have a leg to stand on.