Peaceful Epileptic Protester Has Head Dragged Along Ground By 'Guards'!

[JAMESCORK]

are you for real???? thats the way you would apprehend someone even if they are having a fit

That is the way I would expect a police force to apprehend an individual who is violently resisting. He is seen kicking out at the apprehending Gardai a number of times before his face went to the ground. It looks as if the fracas induced the epileptic fit. Either way, did the Gardai realize he was having a fit (that is of course if he was at that time) as they were forcefully removing off the road. It is quite reasonable to assume the Gardai did not know he was epileptic until told so by one of the female bystanders.

[WatWatWat]

It's his own fault, epileptics should not be allowed to protest as the bright colours of the gardas uniforms would set him off.

In templemore we were told that if we ever came across a crowd of out of control epileptics. Just turn on the flashers.

[piggi]

There are several points I am trying to make, the first of which is that it is difficult to move someone who is having a fit.

I agree. The best thing to do is to make them comfortable where they are. Moving them is dangerous.

You can see the gards trying to lift him and they are struggling because of the unpredictable way his body is moving.

Yes. He is having a seizure. They should not be lifting him at all.

They should have more assistance with it, but they don't. Not from other gards or from the other protesters.

No, they should not be moving him. Assistance is not the issue. The other protestors were attempting to assist by telling the gards that the man was having a fit but they were ignored. I think you are living in fantasy land if you actually believe that the gardai initially knew that the man was unwell.

From watching the video multiple times, it seems that they felt he was being difficult and then, when they realised that he was actually having a seizure, left him alone, gave him space, and put him in the position he needed to be in, as you've said they have been trained to do...

I agree with the first part of your statement You now appear to acknowledge that they were not initially moving him because he was unwell, and that they put him down when they realised this. Previously you said that they were moving him because he was ill - I think your story is changing, Lara.

Also, at no time do they leave him alone. There is a gard with him at all times - not reassuring for him or his family, I'm sure, in light of their previous behaviour. When they determined that he was not being violent but was having a fit, they should have released him and allowed his friends to care for him - instead they kept him in custody and prevented his friends from coming to his aid (apart from one or two).

Trying to put someone having a fit in the recovery position is difficult. Reassuring them doesn't always work unless you actually know the person. Often it can aggravate the situation, as I've seen.

I agree. They should have left the poor man alone and allowed those who knew him to care for him instead of maintaining custody of this entirely innocent person. Disgraceful.

What I'm saying is that, yes, it could have been dealt with better...

You think?

I don't see this as brutality.

Well then, Lara, I very much hope that someone you care about deeply has the opportunity to receive this level of professionalism from the gardai. Then you can come on here and tell us again how great they are!

It did take a while for them to acknowledge that this wasn't an act of violence from the man and was actually a fit, but when they did they acted accordingly.

Yes, they continued to keep him in custody and prevented most of his friends from coming to his aid.

From reading your posts, it isn't clear if you wanted them to continue clearing the road or tending to the man having the seizure. As you've pointed out that there weren't enough gards to deal with the situation, which is better?

In fact I said the opposite. Did you actually bother to read my post?

I still believe that moving him was the best action at the time, given the brief amount of knowledge they seemed to have on the situation. If they'd have left him, people would be crying negligence for leaving a fitting man in the middle of a road.

Now you seem to have doubled-back and are again asserting that they knew he was having a seizure before they moved him.

Your opinion does seem ever so fluid, Lara.

And I think that people will be crying a lot more than "negligence" when they see that video!

[piggi]

...I am pointing out that if the mans face had hit the ground severely there would at least have been a mark. The man was kicking out. The Garda to the rear nearly missed a kick to the face and lost his grip causing the mans upper body to hit the road. As soon as they realised his head was to the ground they stopped and lifted him by his belt.

A number of protestors were shouting "He's having a fit!" as the gardai were manhandling him.

I understand that the gards aren't the brightest boys in the class, but surely thay can hear and understand simple English?

The Gardaí had asked people to clear the road. This man refused and resisted. He is clearly seen to wriggle and kick out. Looking back over the footage it may well be he was having a fit. Did the Gardaí know this at this time or did the think they had a violent protestor.

It doesn't matter whether they knew or not really. The fact is that they were told that he was having a seizure by a number of the people who knew him - they chose to ignore this and treat him as a troublemaker, even though there was no other violence going on and the other protestors showed no signs of becoming violent. Indeed, it seems to me, that the protestors were very clearly worried about this poor guy and desperately trying to communicate the facts to gardai who refused to listen.

I suggest the Gardaí knew they were being filmed from a very early stage. At no time did they attempt to stop the filming.

They had no grounds on which to demand that the filming be stopped. And, yes, they probably knew they were being filmed. This didn't bother them until they realised that a man whom they had just manhandled across the road, with his head dragging along the ground, was having a seizure. I noticed a distinct change in their demeanour at this point.

A garda is quite clearly heard saying "Would you ask your pals to step back please. I have no problem with one or two".

Why should a gard determine who gets to comfort the unwell, and presumably distressed, man? In any other circumstance this man's friends would have been speaking to him and reassuring him. As he had comitted no offence, why did a gard feel the need to limit those who could assist him? And why did the gardai maintain custody of the man long after it was clear that he had done nothing wrong? Intimidation, perhaps?

Interestingly, the important task of clearing the road seems to have been forgotten about. If it was so necessary, I wonder why this happened?

As in, make sure he got into the ambulance that they called perhaps

I saw no ambulance.

But no, you're probably right. I mean, having watched the clip from beginning to end it is clear that the gardai were deeply concerned with the safety of this man. The loving care and professionalism with which they approached the task of dragging his head along the ground is, in itself, proof that you are correct.

Oh, and thank you for the examples of the polite gardai.

I suggest to you that the words read quite nicely but that the tone and manner in which they were delivered tell a different story.

[JAMESCORK]

A number of protestors were shouting "He's having a fit!" as the gardai were manhandling him.

I understand that the gards aren't the brightest boys in the class, but surely thay can hear and understand simple English?

Look, I'm not going to go tit for tat with ya Piggi, but "He is having a fit" was shouted out as the scuffle quietened down and after the alleged face dragging incident occurred. You obviously feel strongly that the Gardai acted with brutality. We will just have to agree to disagree with some of the points here. I am of the opinion that the Gardai acted with force, but not brutality. The face dragging was unfortunate but not carried out with intent. I do believe the attending Garda was acting with compassion toward the latter end of the clip.

[AbsoluteNoob]

I know I will be a lone voice here , but this appeared on my Facebook yesterday and I was shocked by the total onesided barrage of negative hateful comments against the Guards. Listen to the background conversations people.
I appears to me that the guards were very polite and restrained , how do they keep their patients when confronted by total fucking idiots . They requested the public road be cleared, what's wrong with that ?. They have a duty of care to all , not just the Luny left.

Listen to the abusive foreign voice in the background , look at the old boy in the cream leftie linen jacket , he is totally arrogant in his disregard of the guards requests . I'm sure if any of these protesters had their 60 inch tv or laptop stolen they would be on to Joe Duffy if the guards didn't arrive in 5 minutes.

I'm not a guard or a Zionist , but do any of these protestors have any sympathy for the families of the 3 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered and dumped in the desert that was the spark for this current situation ?.

I'm also fascinated by the speed at which we here in the west are prepared to defend the Arab / Muslim .
Does anyone truly believe that they would do likewise ?

Anyway that's my rant over for the day

What's that supposed to mean? Israel are waging war on innocent people, taking their land, breaching borders, a military superpower oppressing their "neighbours".

Jeez, doesn't that sound familiar? The reason we have all these extremists in the East is because of Western intervention. "Prepared to defend the arab/muslim".

Ya have to be kidding me.

Oh, and asking if they'd do likewise, the Ottoman Empire (Islam was their official religion) tried to come to Irish aid during the Famine by sending ship loads of food but it was intercepted by the British. So yes, the Muslims did come to our aid. Or at least tried.

[piggi]

Look, I'm not going to go tit for tat with ya Piggi, but "He is having a fit" was shouted out as the scuffle quietened down and after the alleged face dragging incident occurred. You obviously feel strongly that the Gardai acted with brutality. We will just have to agree to disagree with some of the points here.

Fair enough.

I am of the opinion that the Gardai acted with force, but not brutality.

I wonder if we saw the same clip?

But as you suggest, let's agree to disagree.

The face dragging was unfortunate...

No.

Forgetting bring your brolly on a rainy day is unfortunate.

Someone putting sugar in you tea, if you don't take suger, is unfortunate.

A group of yobbos dragging a man's face across the ground is a little bit more than "unfortunate" in my view.

...but not carried out with intent.

Wow - you're a mind-reader too! cool!

I do believe the attending Garda was acting with compassion toward the latter end of the clip.

Bollox.

They kept a very unwell man in custody although he had done nothing wrong.

They prevented the man's friends from coming to his aid (apart from, I think, two people).

For you to view that clip and employ a term like "compassion" is gobsmacking.

Some people just hold this cosy picture of 1950s Ireland in their head and no reality will ever even dent it.

Compassion? For fuck's sake!

[fozzy]

I just came across this and am literally disgusted to the core of my being!
A peaceful protester who happens to suffer from epilepsy dragged by his head along the road by so called police officers!
These are readily identifiable and hopefully will face criminal charges!

I know this man I was in college with him last year he is the most quiet and kind guy I ever met he wouldn't harm a fly. Not only does he suffer from epilepsy but also has a heart condition. I haven't seen him in a few months and to see him in this video is really hard to take. I hope he is okay as I have no way of contacting him. I just hope that these guards are brought to justice and suffer the consequences.

[adamski]

thats bad, poor feller, just think what they would do to us clients in the raids if they got their hands on us

[The Libertarian]

thats bad, poor feller, just think what they would do to us clients in the raids if they got their hands on us

It would entirely depend on the pressure they are subjected to from the bosses! It is noteworthy that the Gardai all had their numbers covered up as has happened in similar situations before! Interesting also, that even though the knew they were being filmed, they continued regardless! Which makes you wonder what they are at behind the closed doors of a van or the station!
Also, another sickening elemenent is that this is done to placate and lick arse our American friends, actually if it was outside the Zionist embassy, the pigz would not have been anxious to show how psychophantic, they are!
AFAIK, it's actually illegal to film the guards strutting their stuff (though not to post on the web!) and they can confiscate whatever accordingly! Maybe they were to thick to realize this or indeed are not to familiar with the law in general, although that law stinks of 1984!
I thought also of the particular incident, widely reported, in Rossport, where they confiscated a video camera from a woman, unknowingly to them, it was still recording in the squad car and the 2 pigz were musing about how they would like to rape said protester! They gave the camera back containing the footage! They faced absolutely no consequences! As I said at the time, I'm in my 40s and thankfully have never heard another male in my company joke about raping a woman!