Ukraine

[Gthomas]

"wild east and civilized west"...
Jesus why peoples so naive!!!
Democracy was delivered by western bombs to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria... Whoever is not with America they are enemies... America tries protecting herself just in case of ww3, nukes won't reach them. It can fall anywhere in Europe, Asia... America's tanks, planes, boats all over the globus...
When Ukraine was made her nuke free country - there was an agreement between Russia, America, France, Germany they going to protect that country... Where are they now???
Ukraine has no oil... So it worthless to America!
Kuwait! Because it's rich country by oil, America helped them, because they asked for help...
Ukraine screaming for it (help)... Where's America...
Russia keeps her army inside her country. Except Syria, but they asked for that help... All that Russia wants that border countries won't go into NATO. All they want not to have enemies directly at their doors. And it was also made an agreement around 20 - 30 years ago...
Open your eyes. You believe in these facts what our media wants you to believe.

[Forceuser]

When Ukraine was made her nuke free country - there was an agreement between Russia, America, France, Germany they going to protect that country... Where are they now???
Ukraine has no oil... So it worthless to America!
Kuwait! Because it's rich country by oil, America helped them, because they asked for help...
Ukraine screaming for it (help)... Where's America...

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/28/p...ing/index.html

Russia keeps her army inside her country. Except Syria, but they asked for that help..

thats not true at all!
russia are fighting to put the dictator Bashar al-Assad back in power after he was overthrown
by a populist rebellion

and look up what russia did to georgia when they wanted to join the eu and nato

[Gthomas]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/28/p...ing/index.html



thats not true at all!
russia are fighting to put the dictator Bashar al-Assad back in power after he was overthrown
by a populist rebellion

and look up what russia did to georgia when they wanted to join the eu and nato

Read bit more carefully my opinion above.
Next... How many dictators America supports still? UAE! Even Trump... Get into meetings with N Korea leader and promise to support if they dismantle the nukes! Only for that!
Most Arabic countries depend on oil and strong hand... While they dancing under America's music, democracy closing bombs eyes.
Aha... Georgia... Same like Ukraine, same like Moldova. While there's some kind conflict, these countries cannot be in NATO. That's now can be calling a buffer zone between NATO and Russia... It is very handy to Russia.
Imagine personally would you like to live next door to your worst enemy, killer, rapist... And he is same physically strong as you... Or is it better that he'll be few doors away...

[Forceuser]

Read bit more carefully my opinion above.
Next... How many dictators America supports still? UAE! Even Trump... Get into meetings with N Korea leader and promise to support if they dismantle the nukes! Only for that!
Most Arabic countries depend on oil and strong hand... While they dancing under America's music, democracy closing bombs eyes.
Aha... Georgia... Same like Ukraine, same like Moldova. While there's some kind conflict, these countries cannot be in NATO. That's now can be calling a buffer zone between NATO and Russia... It is very handy to Russia.
Imagine personally would you like to live next door to your worst enemy, killer, rapist... And he is same physically strong as you... Or is it better that he'll be few doors away...

i did read it properly and the statement about russia keeping its armies inside its own borders or america
not doing anything are not factual
whether you believe that the reason was because georgia elected a western leaning president or not,russia
did invade a free nation to extend its sphere of influence.
now it has troops in belarus and bordering ukraine like a knife to their throats and america has reacted against
it ,oil or no oil

what i've noticed on this thread and elsewhere is that people are letting their anti american sentiment blind them to
history and facts
there is a lot of accusations you can level at america and with good cause and people can bring up south america and the middle east
but they are their own complex situations deserving of their own thread and i'm not interested in whataboutisms.
this thread is about the ukrainian crisis and at the end of the day what russia is doing is wrong.

people are also forgetting just how hard some eastern european countries struggled to free themselves from the soviet bloc
and if they feel their hard earned freedom is safer joining the EU or NATO then that should be their right to do so

its also making people rush to paint russia as some kind of victim in all of this and making people forget what Putin and
his inner circle are,which is hardline communists.
and hardline russian communists will always yearn for the "glory" days of the USSR
the guy worked for the KGB for gods sake!

yesterday there was two uninvited warships with big red stars on them sitting inside our economic territorial waters
one wonders what awaits eastern european countries in the future if he is let bully the ukraine


do people really believe that there is a danger of NATO invading russia if ukraine joins anyway?!?!

[Gthomas]

I presume you are Irish... Myself, I was born in USSR.
Georgia - they made first shot! Western Leaning president? In Georgia? Same Georgians thrown him out of country. Funny isn't? And after that he managed to come back to his country and now in prison for corruption!
Belorussia! They have union with Russia, same with Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan, Armenia. Same like NATO block. So Russia make war games with these countries...
Russia is free country. They can keep troops inside wherever they want, or America have to decide?
America has nukes in Turkey, Italy, Germany, Belgium outside own country. Whats going to happen if Russia brings her nukes to Mexico, Cuba, Canada? Why France, UK, Israel, China, India, Pakistan can keep within borders of own countries?
KGB - simply secret service... Like Mosad, FBI etc. Each country has that. Why you afraid of it. I mean KGB.
Russian boats in Irish territory? Because Ireland is weakest link in NATO. So where's America? Where's UK? France?
OK. Ukrainian crisis!
Ukraine - one of most corrupted country in middle of Europe. Why they never tried to protect themselves when Russia was taking away Crimea (not occupied). Why Ukraine wasn't protecting their own borders and let Russian tanks go through to Donetsk and Luhantsk? Why they never shot even one bullet toward Russia while Russian army were passing through? Why they still not protecting fully own country borders? By the way how America reacted to the the fact that Russia tries to go into war with Ukraine. As far I heard they evacuating embassy and just confirmed that they won't help Ukraine in that war. That was Biden words!
Communists. Did you ever tried to understand what is communism? I was in that system. And you trying to explain me what it is?
Comunism means that everyone has a job, money for living. There wasn't homeless, everyone has some kind ceiling above head. There you could go to prison for not going to work!
NATO won't invide to Russia or Russia won't invade to Ukraine. It's just pure geopolitical game. Virus not interesting anymore! Virus era is over... So politicians start new game for people... To talk about.

[Forceuser]

I presume you are Irish... Myself, I was born in USSR.
Georgia - they made first shot! Western Leaning president? In Georgia? Same Georgians thrown him out of country. Funny isn't? And after that he managed to come back to his country and now in prison for corruption!
Belorussia! They have union with Russia, same with Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan, Armenia. Same like NATO block. So Russia make war games with these countries...
Russia is free country. They can keep troops inside wherever they want, or America have to decide?
America has nukes in Turkey, Italy, Germany, Belgium outside own country. Whats going to happen if Russia brings her nukes to Mexico, Cuba, Canada? Why France, UK, Israel, China, India, Pakistan can keep within borders of own countries?
KGB - simply secret service... Like Mosad, FBI etc. Each country has that. Why you afraid of it. I mean KGB.
Russian boats in Irish territory? Because Ireland is weakest link in NATO. So where's America? Where's UK? France?
OK. Ukrainian crisis!
Ukraine - one of most corrupted country in middle of Europe. Why they never tried to protect themselves when Russia was taking away Crimea (not occupied). Why Ukraine wasn't protecting their own borders and let Russian tanks go through to Donetsk and Luhantsk? Why they never shot even one bullet toward Russia while Russian army were passing through? Why they still not protecting fully own country borders? By the way how America reacted to the the fact that Russia tries to go into war with Ukraine. As far I heard they evacuating embassy and just confirmed that they won't help Ukraine in that war. That was Biden words!
Communists. Did you ever tried to understand what is communism? I was in that system. And you trying to explain me what it is?
Comunism means that everyone has a job, money for living. There wasn't homeless, everyone has some kind ceiling above head. There you could go to prison for not going to work!
NATO won't invide to Russia or Russia won't invade to Ukraine. It's just pure geopolitical game. Virus not interesting anymore! Virus era is over... So politicians start new game for people... To talk about.

No they didn't make the first shot,
in 2008 South Ossetian separatists started shelling Georgian villages when
artillery attacks by pro-Russian separatists broke a 1992 ceasefire agreement
the Georgian Army was sent to the South Ossetian zone to stop these attacks
Russian troops then illicitly crossed the Russian-Georgian state border and attacked georgian troops

never said Mikheil Saakashvili was a great president but his foreign policy was characterized by pro-NATO and pro-West politics
and he did want to join NATO as a way to stabilize and protect georgia
why would it be a surprise that a man in A country that broke away from the USSR would have west leaning tendencies???

never said that the troops in belarus were uninvited,but they are there as a threat to ukraine

yes they can move their troops where they want inside their own borders but do you want me believe that they haven't
massed on ukraines border for no reason?!?! c'mon!!

fair point on the nukes but maybe if russia hadn't been so aggressive after the second world war and stayed as an
occupier in eastern europe,they nukes wouldnt be there. debatable

KGB were not just an intelligence agency,many KGB officials have been sentenced for war crimes in former soviet bloc
eastern european countries like Latvia and Lithuania for their actions while trying to stamp out uprisings

probably didn't want to escalate,we were never in danger of being attacked,ukraine is

there was fighting in crimea,still is skirmishes
as for why they didn't directly fire on soviet military,probably because they know Putin would only love
a legitimate reason to point to and attack,a war that ukraine would lose without the backing of NATO which
would be harder to come by if they fired the first shot. makes perfect sense

of course you are going to evacuate embassies from an area that may turn into a war zone,they would be a prime
and vulnerable target
and Biden has said no such thing,the opposite in fact

yes,i do understand the idea of communism but what you're describing is the idealized version,(going to prison for not going to work sounds lovely by the way!)
not what it became
the fatal flaw in the communist idea is that it only works if there is a good selfless man at the top
and they can be in very short supply
which is why democracy,while not perfect,is still the best we have
you need checks and balances against overall power falling into the wrong hands
do you know that Stalin killed over 20 million of his own people!!

if no ones gonna invade anyone,no real reason for all the troops then,they can just go on back to their bases.

[Forceuser]

No they didn't make the first shot,
in 2008 South Ossetian separatists started shelling Georgian villages when
artillery attacks by pro-Russian separatists broke a 1992 ceasefire agreement
the Georgian Army was sent to the South Ossetian zone to stop these attacks
Russian troops then illicitly crossed the Russian-Georgian state border and attacked georgian troops

never said Mikheil Saakashvili was a great president but his foreign policy was characterized by pro-NATO and pro-West politics
and he did want to join NATO as a way to stabilize and protect georgia
why would it be a surprise that a man in A country that broke away from the USSR would have west leaning tendencies???

never said that the troops in belarus were uninvited,but they are there as a threat to ukraine

yes they can move their troops where they want inside their own borders but do you want me believe that they haven't
massed on ukraines border for no reason?!?! c'mon!!

fair point on the nukes but maybe if russia hadn't been so aggressive after the second world war and stayed as an
occupier in eastern europe,they nukes wouldnt be there. debatable

KGB were not just an intelligence agency,many KGB officials have been sentenced for war crimes in former soviet bloc
eastern european countries like Latvia and Lithuania for their actions while trying to stamp out uprisings

probably didn't want to escalate,we were never in danger of being attacked,ukraine is

there was fighting in crimea,still is skirmishes
as for why they didn't directly fire on soviet military,probably because they know Putin would only love
a legitimate reason to point to and attack,a war that ukraine would lose without the backing of NATO which
would be harder to come by if they fired the first shot. makes perfect sense

of course you are going to evacuate embassies from an area that may turn into a war zone,they would be a prime
and vulnerable target
and Biden has said no such thing,the opposite in fact

yes,i do understand the idea of communism but what you're describing is the idealized version,(going to prison for not going to work sounds lovely by the way!)
not what it became
the fatal flaw in the communist idea is that it only works if there is a good selfless man at the top
and they can be in very short supply
which is why democracy,while not perfect,is still the best we have
you need checks and balances against overall power falling into the wrong hands
do you know that Stalin killed over 20 million of his own people!!

if no ones gonna invade anyone,no real reason for all the troops then,they can just go on back to their bases.

Addendum* have seen the Biden statement you mentioned about no boots on the ground but also the statement that american troops have been placed
on high deployment alert and would be placed in friendly NATO countries near ukraine as well as supplying arms

[pegmyass85]

No they didn't make the first shot,
in 2008 South Ossetian separatists started shelling Georgian villages when
artillery attacks by pro-Russian separatists broke a 1992 ceasefire agreement
the Georgian Army was sent to the South Ossetian zone to stop these attacks
Russian troops then illicitly crossed the Russian-Georgian state border and attacked georgian troops

never said Mikheil Saakashvili was a great president but his foreign policy was characterized by pro-NATO and pro-West politics
and he did want to join NATO as a way to stabilize and protect georgia
why would it be a surprise that a man in A country that broke away from the USSR would have west leaning tendencies???

never said that the troops in belarus were uninvited,but they are there as a threat to ukraine

yes they can move their troops where they want inside their own borders but do you want me believe that they haven't
massed on ukraines border for no reason?!?! c'mon!!

fair point on the nukes but maybe if russia hadn't been so aggressive after the second world war and stayed as an
occupier in eastern europe,they nukes wouldnt be there. debatable

KGB were not just an intelligence agency,many KGB officials have been sentenced for war crimes in former soviet bloc
eastern european countries like Latvia and Lithuania for their actions while trying to stamp out uprisings

probably didn't want to escalate,we were never in danger of being attacked,ukraine is

there was fighting in crimea,still is skirmishes
as for why they didn't directly fire on soviet military,probably because they know Putin would only love
a legitimate reason to point to and attack,a war that ukraine would lose without the backing of NATO which
would be harder to come by if they fired the first shot. makes perfect sense

of course you are going to evacuate embassies from an area that may turn into a war zone,they would be a prime
and vulnerable target
and Biden has said no such thing,the opposite in fact

yes,i do understand the idea of communism but what you're describing is the idealized version,(going to prison for not going to work sounds lovely by the way!)
not what it became
the fatal flaw in the communist idea is that it only works if there is a good selfless man at the top
and they can be in very short supply
which is why democracy,while not perfect,is still the best we have
you need checks and balances against overall power falling into the wrong hands
do you know that Stalin killed over 20 million of his own people!!

if no ones gonna invade anyone,no real reason for all the troops then,they can just go on back to their bases.

Biden say no troops on the ground in the Ukraine yet he's deployed thousands of troops to Eastern countries that boarder the Ukraine. He's sent an carrier forece into the Mediterranean sea close to turkey. The Ukrainian president called for calm from Western countries and said negotiations are going well with Russia. The French President echoed those comments of the Ukrainian president. Bidens response was to say he's deploying more troops to Europe. Ukraine is literally finding itself surrounded. One side Russia the other side Americans.
If Russia really wants to invade why hasn't it? It's army is literally sitting in it own country watching Ukrainian defenses get stronger by the hour and more and more US and NATO troops arrive on the western Ukrainian boarder?.

[Gthomas]

See guys... That what I say before! All your beliefs are whatever western journalists want. Good luck with that.
P. S. We all have right to have own opinion to surrounding world. And I really respect your one. And I'll keep my one with me.
Peace

[Forceuser]

See guys... That what I say before! All your beliefs are whatever western journalists want. Good luck with that.
P. S. We all have right to have own opinion to surrounding world. And I really respect your one. And I'll keep my one with me.
Peace

while i disagree with 95% of what you say on this thread,i did find the discussion interesting and learned some things
while pondering my responses,so thank you for that
peace to you also