What If Minister Shatter Is Moved Out of Justice?

[The Libertarian]

That is what I thought myself, expect the ICI and other nun run charities to up the propaganda at some stage. Shatter won't be justice minister forever either.

Oh, even if they only manage to increase their funding through their current shananigans, expect Ruhama and ICI to try it again and again!

[Morpheus]

I think the main rational sane factors which can prevent Swedish model type anti sex worker and anti sex work legislation here are the basic human decency and understanding of Minister Shatter and Mr. De Valera's old constitution.
But with the likelihood of Minister Phil Hogan or at the outside Minister Reilly or Minister Quinn likely to be going to Europe as our next EU commissioner replacing MGQ (who was also quite good on this issue, understanding and stating as Minister For Justice that what consenting adults do in private is no business of the criminal law!), there will be a cabinet reshuffle.
I don't know what Enda Kenny thinks of the proposed legislation (he is known to be a decent person, so he most likely has a good understanding of the terrible consequences of such a law!), but The Fake Socialists may force his hand on Minister Shatter!
Though as a loyal supporter of the Taoiseach and the fact that he is in his dream job, I think Minister Shatter will be left where he is as Minister for Justice and Defence!

Things aren't looking good for Minister Shatter. Like him or hate him, he has definitely been a reasonble person with regard to the proposed change to legislation on prostitution. The report he commisioned turned out to be entirely biased. Fair play to him for not just implementing the one sided recommendations, even though it looks bad for him not implementing the recommendations of a report he commissioned. He has shown common sense and nerve in this regard.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if he will survive the current controversies relating to the Gardai. If he has to step down or move to a different ministry, I think it will be bad for anyone involved in the escorting industry. Most other politicians seem to have bought into the TORL propaganda.

[ladiesman217]

Collins is nothing but a complete embarrassment to the FF party and that's saying something, all right!

Niall Collins is a complete and utter c*nt. I know cos I've had the complete displeasure of meeting him on a few occasions.

[Davidontour]

Shatter has survived a FF vote of no confidence tonight, by 95 votes to 51. Clear that FG are standing by him, though there's an argument that with elections looming, FF might in reality prefer him to stay.

[Paul Carr]

I'd say it is the dark radical forces that we need to be careful about. They dreamed up this wheeze in the first place. Conservatives aren't as bad as ye people make them out to be.

Combination of both I think. The Swedish model is based on a neo feminist fiction that all prostitution is paid rape and violence against women. So target the Johns. This was the rationale when the law was first brought in in 1999. Since then, a Nordic Gender Institute poll conducted in 2008 has shown that 2/3 of Swedish women want to criminalize the sale of sex too. Within Sweden, the neo feminist justification of the law is no longer used when selling the law to a home audience.

Ruhama, of course, also take this feminist argument to justify the transplantation of the Swedish sex purchase Act to Ireland but David Stanton who chaired the joint Oireachtas committee on the review of the laws on prostitution and which made final recommendations last June is no neo feminist. He is a catholic social conservative. So you will notice there are differences between Ruhama's submission to the Oireachtas justice committee on review of prostitution law and the final justice committee recommendations. Ruhama's submission explicitly sought to remove the loitering for the purposes of prostitution and solicitation/importuning offence, sections 7 and 8 of the Sexual Offenses Act of 1993 as it applied to the sellers of sex. David Stanton's final recommendations are much vaguer in this regard. No commitment to reverse sections 7 and 8 of Sexual Offenses Act as it applies to the sale of sex is given.

[Paul Carr]

Collins is nothing but a complete embarrassment to the FF party and that's saying something, all right!

I would say the entire FF party is an embarrassment. Collins fits seamlessly within it.

[Paul Carr]

I think the main rational sane factors which can prevent Swedish model type anti sex worker and anti sex work legislation here are the basic human decency and understanding of Minister Shatter and Mr. De Valera's old constitution.
But with the likelihood of Minister Phil Hogan or at the outside Minister Reilly or Minister Quinn likely to be going to Europe as our next EU commissioner replacing MGQ (who was also quite good on this issue, understanding and stating as Minister For Justice that what consenting adults do in private is no business of the criminal law!), there will be a cabinet reshuffle.
I don't know what Enda Kenny thinks of the proposed legislation (he is known to be a decent person, so he most likely has a good understanding of the terrible consequences of such a law!), but The Fake Socialists may force his hand on Minister Shatter!
Though as a loyal supporter of the Taoiseach and the fact that he is in his dream job, I think Minister Shatter will be left where he is as Minister for Justice and Defence!

Maire Geoghegan Quinn was the Minister for Justice who brought in the Sexual Offences Act of 1993 that *re*criminalized the organized sex work industry in the Republic of Ireland. As a result, a sex worker indoors has to work alone to stay on the right side of the law. Street sex work similarly was re-criminalized.

[The Libertarian]

Maire Geoghegan Quinn was the Minister for Justice who brought in the Sexual Offences Act of 1993 that *re*criminalized the organized sex work industry in the Republic of Ireland. As a result, a sex worker indoors has to work alone to stay on the right side of the law. Street sex work similarly was re-criminalized.

AFAIK, she is on the Dail record at the time of the decriminalisation of homosexuality, which she put through and the bill which You speak of, as saying that what 2 consenting adults do in private is no business of the criminal law, which of course it is not, street solicitation is a different matter!
Ironically, the insane proposed changes to the law will force 'decriminalised' sex workers to ply their trade on the street alone and indeed may have implications for sex workers finding accommodation to live in (which is of course one of the many obvious unconstitutional aspects of the recent looney recommendations!).

[Paul Carr]

AFAIK, she is on the Dail record at the time of the decriminalisation of homosexuality, which she put through and the bill which You speak of, as saying that what 2 consenting adults do in private is no business of the criminal law, which of course it is not, street solicitation is a different matter!
Ironically, the insane proposed changes to the law will force 'decriminalised' sex workers to ply their trade on the street alone and indeed may have implications for sex workers finding accommodation to live in (which is of course one of the many obvious unconstitutional aspects of the recent looney recommendations!).

I wouldn't credit Fianna Fail for decriminalizing homosexuality. They dragged their feet for 5 years after the Norris decision at the European Court of Human Rights. When they finally did it, they faced zero opposition in the Dail.

Their 1993 Sexual Offences act criminalized two indoor sex workers or more working together. It was a terrible law that was an open invitation for pimps to move into the brothel business in order to "protect" the girls. The law meant that an indoor sex worker has to work alone to be on the right side of the law. This means that she has no protection from a police officer, for example, who may demand a freebie from her or protection from the rape and violence of local hooligans in the neighbourhood or uglymugs.

The Stanton Joint Oireachtas Justice committee proposals from last June, if implemented, will mean that a Landlord can be charged with recklessly allowing prostitution on his premises, a lower burden of proof than previously. This will mean that even indoor sex workers working alone can be thrown out on the street. If we go down that route, we'll be making a bad law even worse.

[The Libertarian]

The latest edition of Phoenix says that with fairly bad results due in the locals and Europeans (more so for the fake socialists than the aul blueshirts!) and his other 2 most loyal supporters in cabinet constantly in scandals (Reilly and Shatter), Enda will prevail upon Phil for the sake of the party and good of the country to forsake the coveted EU commissioner's post and instead become minister for FA replacing Gilmore who will go to environment! The advantage for Gilmore in environment is that he will be able to 'protect' those that have never done a 'tap' of work in their lives from water charges and come across as a working class hero!
Ho Chi Quinn will most likely get the EU plum job (it will stop him from totally destroying the educational system and he would absolutely luv it!), however, Rabitte would also like to strut his stuff on the international stage!
Alex Whyte will replace Quinn in education! James O'Reilly despite the recent insane compulsory massive health insurance proposals will be left in Health as nobody else wants the Angola portfolio!
Then it describes Minister Shatter as the minister for darkness and says it does not know what will happen him!