Palestine ... A State ?

[Stephanie]

Today, despite strenuous objections from Israel and the US , the United Nations has elected to elevate Palestine's status ,

which paves the way for possibly a free Palestinian State. A country of their own , internationally recognized.

And if that should come to pass , then all the Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory shall be

deemed illegal and shall be disassembled ?

What do you think ?

Are they terrorist or people fighting for self determination ,

essentially freedom fighters trying to throw off the Israeli yoke ??

[dr love]

If only it was that easy to sort that conflict out .

As with all wars of this nature , both sides claim the legitimate right of said war .
Indeed it would be a triumph should this be sorted , the innocents on both sides of this conflict deserve such .: doc

[10inchesandcounting]

138 for. 9 against. 41 abstentions

Democracy rules.

I don't know about that, it certainly represents certain interests, but does it really represent the people globaly who were never consulted?, I very much doubt that.

[Desirable Encounters]

Today, despite strenuous objections from Israel and the US , the United Nations has elected to elevate Palestine's status ,

which paves the way for possibly a free Palestinian State. A country of their own , internationally recognized.

And if that should come to pass , then all the Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory shall be

deemed illegal and shall be disassembled ?

What do you think ?

Are they terrorist or people fighting for self determination ,

essentially freedom fighters trying to throw off the Israeli yoke ??

While the complexities of the issue are well established each and every struggle, irrespective of its kind, (be it political, economic or social) attracts an undesirable element and as result undermine the overall goal.

[Stephanie]

While the complexities of the issue are well established each and every struggle, irrespective of its kind, (be it political, economic or social) attracts an undesirable element and as result undermine the overall goal.

I agree. But :

Even if your cause is noble, does one become a terrorist if he uses terror tactics, or does the end justify the means ??

With all the bombings etc: freedom fighters deserving of their own country, or terrorist who need to be suppressed and wiped out ?

Shall Palestine become a sovereign nation, a country, a State -- internationally recognized ?

Shall all the bloodshed be forgiven -- on both sides -- and turn over a new leaf ?

Israel was fought for and founded after some very messy bloody terrorist actions... Shoe on other foot ?

[Pinot]

I agree. But :

Even if your cause is noble, does one become a terrorist if he uses terror tactics, or does the end justify the means ??

There is no correct answer to your question, it depends on your ethical and moral beliefs in relation to the conflict. Do you believe in absolutism (the end will never justify the means) or relativism (the end does justify the means)...

[Desirable Encounters]

I agree. But :

Even if your cause is noble, does one become a terrorist if he uses terror tactics, or does the end justify the means ??

With all the bombings etc: freedom fighters deserving of their own country, or terrorist who need to be suppressed and wiped out ?

Shall Palestine become a sovereign nation, a country, a State -- internationally recognized ?

Shall all the bloodshed be forgiven -- on both sides -- and turn over a new leaf ?

Israel was fought for and founded after some very messy bloody terrorist actions... Shoe on other foot ?

I was reluctant to post in relation to this matter initially as I am not as well versed on it as you appear to be or perhaps as I should be but I did so as it's a post that deserves recognition.

The reason there is more sympathy in this island towards the Palestinian situation (be the sympathy well founded or not) is that easy parallels can be drawn between the conflict there and that raged for in modern times for the last 40 years in Northern Ireland but has its origins 800 years previous. The Israeli/Palestinian problem is even more deeply rooted.

Hopefully the relative success of the situation in Northern Ireland can act as inspiration.

[Stephanie]

There is no correct answer to your question, it depends on your ethical and moral beliefs in relation to the conflict. Do you believe in absolutism (the end will never justify the means) or relativism (the end does justify the means)...

I wholly agree with you as to no correct answer.. as we all bring preconceived notions and thoughts to the subject..

Hm. Also : Absolutism or Relativism.. I would have to give that a bit more thought..

How do You see it ?

[Stephanie]

I was reluctant to post in relation to this matter initially as I am not as well versed on it as you appear to be or perhaps as I should be but I did so as it's a post that deserves recognition.

The reason there is more sympathy in this island towards the Palestinian situation (be the sympathy well founded or not) is that easy parallels can be drawn between the conflict there and that raged for in modern times for the last 40 years in Northern Ireland but has its origins 800 years previous. The Israeli/Palestinian problem is even more deeply rooted.

Hopefully the relative success of the situation in Northern Ireland can act as inspiration.

Oh, I am not all That well versed on this matter, but I do find that awful long and deep conflict compelling..

Though my government has consistently, for a long long time backed Israel, I cannot in good conscience agree

with our policy. I believe there have been (and unfortunately, likely will be) atrocities committed by Israel just as by

the Palestinians.. They (Israel) should not have Carte Blanche. They should be held accountable just like any others.

Victimhood (or just acting the victim) has long been worn out by them.

I do understand rooting for the underdog, and I reject the debasement of a human race/nation/ethnicity for political ends.

I can see the parallels you refer to with UK/Ireland . And isn't that ironic that just two days ago you were referring to :

"Hopefully the relative success of the situation in Northern Ireland can act as inspiration". .. and today we have news of the riots..

May they be short lived.. xx

[10inchesandcounting]

Internationally recognised it might eventually become, I still don't think it will change anything as long as Israel and the US don't bulge.
Take chyprus as an example, it was invaded by the turks who were unanimously condemmed by every single nation on earth,
they just said fuck you very much all and built a demarcation line that has split the country ever since.
No one ever did anything against the turks and they didn't have the US to back them up.
Based on that, I just don't see anything changing no matter the status Palestine gets!!!.