Irish Independent today page 6

[Bruno69]

I can also confirm that there wasn't a bee in his butt pmsl. I don't mind bee's but wouldn't be happy with one involved in any appointment that's for sure lol.

He's actually lovely and very respectful. He has heart hence him getting wound up and these stories. Can't blame the guy for giving a shit really x

Well said. Unfortunately giving a shit here makes you a target for petty bullying .

[EnglishAlex]

Well said. Unfortunately giving a shit here makes you a target for petty bullying .

I think it's the same in most cases Bruno. People care about something and they're obsessed or have their own agenda. Crazy world we live in x

[carlos marvado]

Oh you're really getting to heart of the matter here

I wonder are you the same poster using this profile who occasionally has something relevant to say?

Ehhh......only one person uses this profile and that's me.........I use it to post many things, some serious and maybe relevant to some debate or other......some just an attempt at humour.......

........so I hope that adds to your sense of wonderment!


Now I wonder which thread can I piss on next..........there must be a recent "Good Morning" or "Congratulations" or "Hello I'm f**king new" thread around here somewhere, or I could resurrect an Alec Horan thread from 2006.

[ChiefHandker]

I think what people like Apollo1 really don't get is that E-I is not going to answer to them like this. It would be totally irresponsible of E-I to start discussing with him any of the advertisers he wants to talk about. When somebody takes out an advert here, a number of procedures take place, they have rights, data protection laws apply etc. There are certain organisations, like the police, who can request information from E-I in certain circumstances, but there will never be a day when Apollo1 gets all the info he feels as client or former client he is entitled to, as he is not entitled to it and it would be totally wrong and unhelpful of E-I to even enter into discussions with him here.

I don't think he nor anyone else here wants that type of information disclosed. It's clear that clients here have genuine concerns that they can't trust or put faith into EI's current procedures when accepting an advert, hence all the suggestions a couple weeks ago with what could be done to prevent another prostitution ring like the one in mentioned operating under the nose of this website. I don't think anyone was naive enough to believe that these sort of operations weren't happening in Ireland, but the fact is that it's been all over the news, it's irrefutable and it has removed all ambiguity. Even those with their heads in sand / up their arse have to sit up and take notice so people want to know what can be done about it.


Given the timing of these revelations, with the new client law on the cards and TOBL currently at loggerheads with TORL... the fact that several of EI's most reputed advertisers were involved in a gang like this has surely undermined the heart of TOBL's arguement. People can argue that EI is only a business, it's not their job to police advertisers, it's only like the golden pages etc but many disagree. In terms of escorting it's the biggest in Ireland by a country mile and as such it should have a responsibility to ensure that A. there's no coercion forcing girls to work and B. that there's no criminal organisations manoevering groups of escorts.
There's were numerous suggestions thrown around recently but the general trend was you and other EI staff saying "well if we did this then these organisations would just get around it by doing that" Well surely that's the name of the game here? To make life for these assholes as difficult as possible... right?
I don't believe for one second that there aren't more of this types of gangs operating in Ireland and likely using this site. If EI wants to salvage something out of a bad situation for the escorting industry in Ireland then you'll do something proactive to tackle it and crucially, be seen to be doing something about it, thus giving substance to the claim that this website cares about escorts.
Otherwise, the newspapers and media won't need to make up anything about you and until such a time as more is done to combat these types of organisations, neither EI or TOBL has a leg to stand on in any discussion involving newspaper claims, TORL or escort safety.

[Patricia]

He has heart hence him getting wound up about these stories. Can't blame the guy for giving a shit really x

Sorry, but I have more time for people who give a shit about trafficking and do something constructive about it. Sensible people who know ANYTHING about trafficking privately talk to the proper authorities - websites do this, clients do this, escorts do this - and then there are those that instead just want to try to kick up some stink about trafficking here, and I'm afraid those people are helping nobody. Yes it is an emotive issue, but posting silly remarks like Apollo1 has been lately is childish and frankly selfish, as it wastes everybody's time and sidelines us all from being able to have constructive debate on this topic.

[anon361]

I think it's the same in most cases Bruno. People care about something and they're obsessed or have their own agenda. Crazy world we live in x

I'm sorry but Apollo is coming across as both of those, I don't disagree with his frustrations but at this stage I have come to realise there is no point complaining to the person you are complaining about, if he feels so strongly why doesn't he contact a proper authority and maybe do some actual good rather than frustrating himself on these boards when he should know at this stage he will get nowhere?

[Bruno69]

I'm sorry but Apollo is coming across as both of those, I don't disagree with his frustrations but at this stage I have come to realise there is no point complaining to the person you are complaining about, if he feels so strongly why doesn't he contact a proper authority and maybe do some actual good rather than frustrating himself on these boards when he should know at this stage he will get nowhere?

If it shifts some peoples attitudes, and I know it has already, it is for the good.

[Patricia]

In terms of escorting it's the biggest in Ireland by a country mile and as such it should have a responsibility to ensure that A. there's no coercion forcing girls to work and B. that there's no criminal organisations manoevering groups of escorts.

I'm afraid it is plain unreasonable to think an escort directory can ensure there is no coercion of escorts or criminal organisations in the escort industry in Ireland. Totally unreasonable statements like this only detract from intelligent debate on these issues.

If EI wants to salvage something out of a bad situation for the escorting industry in Ireland then you'll do something proactive to tackle it and crucially, be seen to be doing something about it, thus giving substance to the claim that this website cares about escorts.

E-I does an awful lot here, the problem seems to be that certain users of this website want E-I to prove to them how much E-I does. If all I cared about was E-I PR I might have done that for you many times already. But the priority has to be the welfare of escorts in this industry, that always comes before PR here, and it is not in the interests of the welfare of escorts for E-I to discuss all the issues here with clients.

Otherwise, the newspapers and media won't need to make up anything about you and until such a time as more is done to combat these types of organisations, neither EI or TOBL has a leg to stand on in any discussion involving newspaper claims, TORL or escort safety.

TOBL have their own forum that you can join and talk about TOBL. You can talk about TOBL here too within reason, but please don't refer to E-I and TOBL like there is some relationship there, as there isn't.

[ChiefHandker]

I'm afraid it is plain unreasonable to think an escort directory can ensure there is no coercion of escorts or criminal organisations in the escort industry in Ireland. Totally unreasonable statements like this only detract from intelligent debate on these issues.

No need to immediately take a patronising tone. Ensure isn't the correct word and there isn't any 100% solution, but it's obvious to many posters, escorts, and presumably EI staff here that certain groups of escorts have a high level of organisation and are linked together in several ways, similarly to how some people reading these boards saw how the escorts arrested in Romania were linked.

E-I does an awful lot here, the problem seems to be that certain users of this website want E-I to prove to them how much E-I does. If all I cared about was E-I PR I might have done that for you many times already. But the priority has to be the welfare of escorts in this industry, that always comes before PR here, and it is not in the interests of the welfare of escorts for E-I to discuss all the issues here with clients.

Fair enough, i'm not asking EI to divulge any details to me or anyone else but I would like to know if EI are doing anything to try and prevent a repeat of the story from Romania.

TOBL have their own forum that you can join and talk about TOBL. You can talk about TOBL here too within reason, but please don't refer to E-I and TOBL like there is some relationship there, as there isn't.

Well, it's known that EI helped TOBL initially setup, but I actually wasn't suggesting that the two have a relationship, you just assumed. I mentioned them both because however separate you may be, you both have common goals and interests which haven't been helped by these recent stories in the news.

[Patricia]

No need to immediately take a patronising tone. Ensure isn't the correct word and there isn't any 100% solution, but it's obvious to many posters, escorts, and presumably EI staff here that certain groups of escorts have a high level of organisation and are linked together in several ways, similarly to how some people reading these boards saw how the escorts arrested in Romania were linked.

I am not in denial that there are groups of escorts. But I think people need to report concerns like this to the proper authorities. I know this can be a long and difficult process, but it is ultimately the only way to tackle these problems effectively. All these clients reporting concerns on websites like E-I or otherwise circulating "warnings" about groups of escorts, but not being willing to engage with the proper authorities at all, is also a problem here.

Fair enough, i'm not asking EI to divulge any details to me or anyone else but I would like to know if EI are doing anything to try and prevent a repeat of the story from Romania.

I can see how you as a client would like to be kept updated on what E-I does to prevent trafficking. The problem is there are a lot of good reasons why we don't discuss many things related to these issues in public. I can say E-I is doing a lot, and that is the truth, but I know that's not always enough.

Well, it's known that EI helped TOBL initially setup, but I actually wasn't suggesting that the two have a relationship, you just assumed. I mentioned them both because however separate you may be, you both have common goals and interests which haven't been helped by these recent stories in the news.

I actually think it is a mistake to assume E-I and TOBL have too many common goals. There are things I care about personally, e.g. escort safety, and I know escort safety is a huge issue for escorts also, of course it is as it is their lives, their welfare. But then there are probably areas E-I and TOBL might have different agendas on. If you look at advertising for example. E-I is a business that was built off the back of criminalisation of advertising. But if you ask an escort is she happy that she is not allowed advertise in newspapers and magazines etc, she is probably not, as she would probably like the choice of being able to advertise in different places, not just only on overseas based websites. I'm just saying E-I and TOBL really are very different things.