Criminalisation of Purchase & "Blue Lights"

[Morpheus]

A general campaign like this is unlikely to make much progress.
If 1000 people 'Like' the Facebook campaign, the general public will interpret that as 1000 degenerates out to abuse sex workers, including those trafficed (sic).
Any campaign driven by clients just wont be credible in the eyes of the public.
The only way for this to work is for escorts to stand up for themselves and put forward their case that it is possible to have consenting sex for money.
The best approach might be for escorts, or representatives, to negotiate with the anti-sex work campaign groups to make the proposed laws compatible with the work of genuine escorts.

I agree with you bedridden. But the problem is that there are very few escorts that use the boards. The majority just advertise and are not an organised group. Many escorts i've met are not familiar with the proposed legislation. The reality is that the most of the escorts would just move on to another country. The biggest losers would be us the clients.

I suggest we fight this on the grounds that criminalizing clients will just send the industry underground and increase trafficking.

And at the same time we can support encourage escorts to do what you've suggested. The problem is that they may not be able to use E-I as a valid platform as E-I benefits financially from their advertising. And this to my knowlegde may also be illegal if the proposed bill is passed.

My only consolation in all this is that the Gardai may be too busy with all their cutbacks to enact this vigorously. However, that won't stop them from making some public arrests when the bill first comes out to make a show that they are doing something.

[skywalker85]

criminaliation of punters in sweden has had a huge impact; most now are scared to punt at home and they go to other countries like latvia oin booze and sex breaks; the few escorts that do work there charge upwards of the equivalent of 200eur per half hour.......

why go to latvia and spend 200eur for half hour when ya can go prague or amsterdam and pay between 70-100eur half hour lol

[ber]

I would caution against being complacent. The anti- escorting movement (they call themselves anti-trafficking) is very organised. Check out "Turn off the red light" website. Pat Rabbit of the Labour party has already promised to enact the bill if labour comes into power. I know politicians are liars but this would be a very soft bill to pass. Head shops were closed down overnight (so that all control is now in the hands of hardcore drug dealers). I fear the same thing could happen with this bill. Do not console youself that it is a minority that is supporting this bill. They are a strong political lobby. I wish it were otherwise, but I seriously fear the end of escorting as we know it in Ireland. It may also be the end of E-I. Of course there will always be escorting in Ireland, but it will be run by pimps/ organised crime and prices will be exorbitant as in Sweden. I suggest we all support the blue light campaign by E-I and post some reasonable arguments. The more posts the better.

While i agree with the most of what u are saying i would disagree with u on a couple of points, 1/ The majority of escorting/
prostitution here in Ireland already has some input from pimps/organised crime this is not to be confused with trafficking
which is a different issue altogether and i believe not a serious problem in Ireland as of yet. The other thing is there are alot
of Independent girls working in Sweeden i know of girls that work here and advertise on this site and also work in Sweeden
and the prices there are something similar to what they were here before the downturn, remember the Sweedish economy is not
in the toilet like ours is, i can guarntee u if we had only been moderately effected by the recession like other countries the
prices here would not have dropped to level they are at now either, remeber all things are relative

[bedridden]

The problem is that escorts don't have a voice.
I know EI have a vested interest in the escorting business, but I still think they could be a credible representative of the escorting community. For example, the AA seem to have a very loud voice in automotive/traffic matters, so it could be similar with EI.
I would like to know if EI have been in contact with anit-sex work groups to put a case forward?

[vampirejackie]

The problem is that escorts don't have a voice.
I know EI have a vested interest in the escorting business, but I still think they could be a credible representative of the escorting community. For example, the AA seem to have a very loud voice in automotive/traffic matters, so it could be similar with EI.
I would like to know if EI have been in contact with anit-sex work groups to put a case forward?

I have asked Pat if she can answer this as I dont know the answer.

[Lucy Chambers]

It might be worth pressing for a modified version of this, where the purchase of sex from a contolled person is criminalised. Thats the current law in the UK.

[ber]

The problem is that escorts don't have a voice.
I know EI have a vested interest in the escorting business, but I still think they could be a credible representative of the escorting community. For example, the AA seem to have a very loud voice in automotive/traffic matters, so it could be similar with EI.
I would like to know if EI have been in contact with anit-sex work groups to put a case forward?

Well u see E-I or any similar sites will always have a credibility issue,because they will only correspond through the media
E-Mails, press releases,facebook twitter etc, they are faceless entitys and wont be treated seriously until a face is put
to the buisness. Can u see the owners of E-I going on TV etc and debating the issues? U cant expect any other organisations
to enter into any kind of dialogue if they dont know who they are speaking to. Why they wont come forward i dont know,
as under current law their site is not breaking the law, what have they to hide?

[ber]

It might be worth pressing for a modified version of this, where the purchase of sex from a contolled person is criminalised. Thats the current law in the UK.

The grey area here is how to define a controlled person,as i believe it the penalties are quite harsh including incarcaration
because no knowledge of the girls circumstances is not a defence. The actual definition of trafficking is not what we would all
deem it to be ie a girl brought here against her will or coerced to work. In reality if somebody just organises for a girl to come
here to work totally of her free will by definition she is deemed to be trafficked. How many genuine guys have gone to see
girls in these circumstances and never knew or realised because the girl is there by choice and nothing would seem amiss
or to all intents and purposes nothing would be

[bedridden]

Well u see E-I or any similar sites will always have a credibility issue,because they will only correspond through the media
E-Mails, press releases,facebook twitter etc, they are faceless entitys and wont be treated seriously until a face is put
to the buisness. Can u see the owners of E-I going on TV etc and debating the issues? U cant expect any other organisations
to enter into any kind of dialogue if they dont know who they are speaking to. Why they wont come forward i dont know,
as under current law their site is not breaking the law, what have they to hide?

I agree, there will have to be a face to any representation.
Now might be just the right time for them to come out of the shadows.

[Morpheus]

While i agree with the most of what u are saying i would disagree with u on a couple of points, 1/ The majority of escorting/
prostitution here in Ireland already has some input from pimps/organised crime this is not to be confused with trafficking
which is a different issue altogether and i believe not a serious problem in Ireland as of yet. The other thing is there are alot
of Independent girls working in Sweeden i know of girls that work here and advertise on this site and also work in Sweeden
and the prices there are something similar to what they were here before the downturn, remember the Sweedish economy is not
in the toilet like ours is, i can guarntee u if we had only been moderately effected by the recession like other countries the
prices here would not have dropped to level they are at now either, remeber all things are relative

I was not aware of the control of organised crime/pimps in the escort industry in Ireland. I have certainly not come across that in my limited experience but I bow to your greater experience. ( I mean that genuinely. Clearly you have been at this longer than I have and have a clearer insight into the industry).

From my point of view, I have no intention of continuing seeing escorts in Ireland should the bill be passed. I have too much to lose to risk being charged (not necessarily convicted) of 'sex offences'. I think i will be investing in time sharing condo's in Spain and brushing up on my Spanish.