car question

[Monkeynut]

If it aint got a gear stick and a clutch pedal its an auto

[johnmurphy]

If the driver uses a paddle to change gears it aint an auto

[johnmurphy]

If it aint got a gear stick and a clutch pedal its an auto

You must learn the difference between "Automatic" and "Automated". I would stick around to teach you but I'm off out for a drive in a real car with a manual gearbox.

[Monkeynut]

You must learn the difference between "Automatic" and "Automated". I would stick around to teach you but I'm off out for a drive in a real car with a manual gearbox.

OK smart arse, if I change gear manually ( ie out of D into 3 and 2 ) in my Automatic, what do you call that? I can change manually by means of a selector just like a paddle shift, its an electronic signal to a hydro mechanical shift component. So do I have an Automatic or an Automated gearbox? The manufacturers of my cars say they are Automatics but I suppose you know best.

Stick around sonny boy and Ill teach you .......

[up for it]

OK smart arse, if I change gear manually ( ie out of D into 3 and 2 ) in my Automatic, what do you call that? I can change manually by means of a selector just like a paddle shift, its an electronic signal to a hydro mechanical shift component. So do I have an Automatic or an Automated gearbox? The manufacturers of my cars say they are Automatics but I suppose you know best.

Stick around sonny boy and Ill teach you .......

you would have an Automatic as the manufacturers say

[luther]

Automatic means it changes gears itself, automated means you give a command but don't actually physically move the gears as with a mechanical gearbox.........

[johnmurphy]

OK smart arse, if I change gear manually ( ie out of D into 3 and 2 ) in my Automatic, what do you call that? I can change manually by means of a selector just like a paddle shift, its an electronic signal to a hydro mechanical shift component. So do I have an Automatic or an Automated gearbox? The manufacturers of my cars say they are Automatics but I suppose you know best.

Stick around sonny boy and Ill teach you .......

My dear boy in your (presumably) Mercedes car I expect you have an Automatic gearbox. When you leave it in the D position it will automatically change gears all by itself, without any instructions from the driver. When you decide to take it from the D position to another forward position such as 3 or 2 you are overriding the Automatic feature of the transmission, but as the transmission still has the ability to decide when to change gears it remains an automatic gearbox.

But back to your point about the Formula 1 cars having Automatic gearboxes. This they do not have. It is actually against the rules of F1 for the gearbox to be Automatic. What they do have is a gearbox/transmission where the gear change has been Automated. The choice of gear and when to make a gear change is always done by the driver and not by the transmission. This can also sometimes be called Semi-Automatic but never as Automatic.

I hope now you understand that it is who or what decides to change gear and not how the gear change is actually achieved that makes the difference between Automatic and Automated transmissions.

If you still do not understand get back to me and I will provide you with a few links. Or just google it and you will plenty on the subject.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Automatic means it changes gears itself, automated means you give a command but don't actually physically move the gears as with a mechanical gearbox.........

But you have to give the gearbox a command to 'change gears by itself' like put it 'D'

Monkeynut is right when he says that "change manually by means of a selector just like a paddle shift, its an electronic signal to a hydro mechanical shift component" just like in an F1 gearbox. Its the same principal.

In principal what we term as 'Automatics', 'DSGs' and 'Triptronics' are all the same except for slightly different aspects to the 'manual' side of the shift mechanism. All of these boxes are automatic as well as having a 'manual' facility. Tiptronic style boxes allow the driver to switch out of fully automatic side of the box and shift up and down 'sequential style' using the selector lever or flappy paddles. A DSG box is more like a Wilson Pre-Select but with 2 clutches.
On the F1 thing, before the F1 car goes out on the track it goes through a complete warm up cycle. The engine and gearbox go through a pre determined, computer controlled cycle and this is done whilst the car is up on stands with no driver input whatsoever. So who changes the gears? The computer does - automatically. Its like in this warm up cycle the computer selects 'D'. So an F1 box does have an automatic facility of sorts but as said the driver is not allowed to use it.
You are both right in some aspects. Monkeynut is correct when talking of road cars and johnmurphy is correct when he is talking about the F1 scenario, but then thats not what the post is about, is it?

[luther]

But you have to give the gearbox a command to 'change gears by itself' like put it 'D'

Monkeynut is right when he says that "change manually by means of a selector just like a paddle shift, its an electronic signal to a hydro mechanical shift component" just like in an F1 gearbox. Its the same principal.

In principal what we term as 'Automatics', 'DSGs' and 'Triptronics' are all the same except for slightly different aspects to the 'manual' side of the shift mechanism. All of these boxes are automatic as well as having a 'manual' facility. Tiptronic style boxes allow the driver to switch out of fully automatic side of the box and shift up and down 'sequential style' using the selector lever or flappy paddles. A DSG box is more like a Wilson Pre-Select but with 2 clutches.
On the F1 thing, before the F1 car goes out on the track it goes through a complete warm up cycle. The engine and gearbox go through a pre determined, computer controlled cycle and this is done whilst the car is up on stands with no driver input whatsoever. So who changes the gears? The computer does - automatically. Its like in this warm up cycle the computer selects 'D'. So an F1 box does have an automatic facility of sorts but as said the driver is not allowed to use it.
You are both right in some aspects. Monkeynut is correct when talking of road cars and johnmurphy is correct when he is talking about the F1 scenario, but then thats not what the post is about, is it?

I hear what you're saying but to make it very simple, a manual gearbox means you have to physically or manually move the gears by way of a mechanical linkage manipulating the gears into position via the linkage, levers and the clutch..........

Automatic gearboxes do not have any manual or physical involvement in the actual moving of the gears, all you do is give it a command, that's as far as the manual or physical involvement goes, either through paddles, buttons or gear selectors. You may be manually telling it what to do, but you are not manually doing it..........

Automatic gearboxes can also be automated. If you select "D" that's it, it does everything else itself "automatically"........

If you select "command shift" or "tiptronic", then it becomes automated. It will not change the gears unless you tell it, but you are not "manually" moving the gears and it will not do it "automatically". It's automated and will do nothing without you giving it the command..........

F1 cars do not have automatic gearboxes, they have automated gearboxes...........

Class dismissed............

[wellhungchap]

I hear what you're saying but to make it very simple, a manual gearbox means you have to physically or manually move the gears by way of a mechanical linkage manipulating the gears into position via the linkage, levers and the clutch..........

Automatic gearboxes do not have any manual or physical involvement in the actual moving of the gears, all you do is give it a command, that's as far as the manual or physical involvement goes, either through paddles, buttons or gear selectors. You may be manually telling it what to do, but you are not manually doing it..........

Automatic gearboxes can also be automated. If you select "D" that's it, it does everything else itself "automatically"........

If you select "command shift" or "tiptronic", then it becomes automated. It will not change the gears unless you tell it, but you are not "manually" moving the gears and it will not do it "automatically". It's automated and will do nothing without you giving it the command..........

F1 cars do not have automatic gearboxes, they have automated gearboxes...........

Class dismissed............

I concur the moderator is correct