Focus on Ruhama

[nicegirlsarenice]

I said I was disappointed in the posts and the derogatory comments / images contained in some. I said that both Ruhama and EI have some common and worthwhile goals. I said I did not think it was a good idea to voice such opinions against Ruhama bearing in mind that punters and EI are not whiter than white. I said nothing about any conflict of interest, my point is that a commercial entity such as EI commenting on such an organisation, is disappointing. Again, for the last time, I'm saying I'm disappointed for the reasons I've pointed out.

These are the type of baseless allegations you're making Mr. Fussy. How is E-I not whiter than white? I still don't know what you're saying about "commercial entity such as EI commenting on an organization", but clarify what you mean by E-I not being whiter than white, in such a way that they shouldn't be allowed to comment on other organizations.

We're all listening.

[Patricia]

I said I was disappointed in the posts and the derogatory comments / images contained in some. I said that both Ruhama and EI have some common and worthwhile goals. I said I did not think it was a good idea to voice such opinions against Ruhama bearing in mind that punters and EI are not whiter than white. I said nothing about any conflict of interest, my point is that a commercial entity such as EI commenting on such an organisation, is disappointing. Again, for the last time, I'm saying I'm disappointed for the reasons I've pointed out.

I think we shall have to agree to disagree here. However I have removed a few of QueenBee's posts as they have caused offence. QueenBee is new here and I'm sure she meant no offence and was just being humourous but I accept this thread may not be the place for such humour.

[carlos marvado]

It goes without saying that E-I is a commercial for profit organisation. It's also obvious why it is located outside the jurisdiction of the ROI and most if not all punters and escorts would freely admit (behind their screen of anonymity) what they are on this site for.

While the help and support that Ruhama provides for escorts and prostitutes who wish to exit the business or who have been rescued from forced sexual exploitation is to be welcomed, their underlying aim seems to be to, as far as possible, eliminate both the supply and demand aspects of the sex business. Apart from the brothels and the on-street trade which are illegal, the only way that they can possibly try to achieve their objectives, is to have the legal aspects of the business criminalised, both for the independent escort working alone and for the clients. If escorts working alone were to be criminalised, this would only serve to push the business even further underground and into the hands of people who would be prepared to take big risks for high rewards. Now if they think that anything is going to put the oldest business out of business, they need a serious reality check. The best way of tackling trafficking and the illegal aspects of the sex trade is to normalise and regulate those aspects which are not currently illegal. If the state and it's institutions supported the choice of those women who decide voluntarily to do this work and clients are not made to feel under the threat of exposure and/or prosecution, then Ruhama and the Gardai would probably gain plenty of allies in their quest to tackle trafficking and forced sexual exploitation. In many cases where crimes have or are being committed, the police rely on the support of the public......they would stand a better chance of getting that support if whistle blowers were guaranteed that their anonymity would not be compromised.

Because Ruhama would like to paint all escorts as being trafficked or forced into sexual exploitation, little reference gets made to escorts who chose to work here because of the higher rates that apply here compared to most other countries or the children or elderly parents in developing countries or even other parts of Europe who sometimes depend on their remittances. In some respects, it's the modern day equivalent of the many Irish who emigrated over the centuries and who had to take jobs that nobody else wanted to support those who stayed in Ireland.

But Ruhama continue to push their hidden agenda, despite the lessons of history, continue to produce questionable statistics and continue to try to justify their existence and funding.

[An don]

But Ruhama continue to push their hidden agenda, despite the lessons of history, continue to produce questionable statistics

Everyone in the escort industry provides questionable stats , its a means to an end like ,for example the number of independent escorts advertising here , (including multiple profiles ,agency advertising as independent ) . Would you not agree that this is a questionable stat also.

[carlos marvado]

Everyone in the escort industry provides questionable stats , its a means to an end like ,for example the number of independent escorts advertising here , (including multiple profiles ,agency advertising as independent ) . Would you not agree that this is a questionable stat also.

Yes I would, but who do you hold responsible for that questionable stat......E-I or the escorts and/or agencies who are economical with the truth?

[nicegirlsarenice]

Everyone in the escort industry provides questionable stats , its a means to an end like ,for example the number of independent escorts advertising here , (including multiple profiles ,agency advertising as independent ) . Would you not agree that this is a questionable stat also.

Did Patricia go around continually giving the media that statistic in order to make it look good?

That's the only way your example would compare.

I mean that as a serious question. I think Patricia is honest and not a liar like Ruhama clearly are, so I very much doubt she would go around saying that.

Some people think they're so clever by skewing and twisting things out of all proportion to make them look good. There's such a thing as putting your side of it out and such a thing as being wilfully and knowingly misleading.

[An don]

You're saying that E-I isn't allowed to argue its case

I dont think mr fussy is saying that at all, but this so called disagreement is taking place on a forum that is biased against ruhama (which i am also but i also believe one girl saved from what ever makes the orgainsation worth while ). I spoke to many escorts in my time and some have good things and bad things to say about both pratogonists. Maybe the only way to sort it is a debate between Patricia and Geraldine

[An don]

I think Patricia is honest and not a liar like Ruhama clearly are, so I very much doubt she would go around saying that.

And that is your opinion which you are entitled to , as Mrfussy is to his

[carlos marvado]

Maybe the only way to sort it is a debate between Patricia and Geraldine

I'd like to put myself forward to host that debate..........Jesus I'd even pay good money to see that!

[nicegirlsarenice]

I dont think mr fussy is saying that at all, but this so called disagreement is taking place on a forum that is biased against ruhama (which i am also but i also believe one girl saved from what ever makes the orgainsation worth while ). I spoke to many escorts in my time and some have good things and bad things to say about both pratogonists. Maybe the only way to sort it is a debate between Patricia and Geraldine

Okay, I get what you're saying and this will probably be my last post on it.

The problem I have is where people are saying we're "biased" against Ruhama and E-I is getting "vast sums of money", because that is just ad hominem. It's not using real arguments, it's ad hominem.

A real argument is like how you're saying that some of the escorts have had good things to say about Ruhama, that's something real.

If Ruhama had a board, they could also discuss things over there. And see what's allowed or what's not allowed. Patricia allows almost everything. I just think that talking about how "E-I is biased" etc. and "E-I isn't whiter than white" is a red herring and just throwing a spanner in the works.