Lisbon Treaty Part 12

[carlos marvado]

Thats true but our recovery will. The more we give away the less we can play with. We were told that we needed to vote YES for economic recovery. I have to ask the obvious, where is the recovery?

that says it all,
Westside.

My own take on that is if we had voted no on the second occasion, and our membership of the Euro or even the EU itself had been put in any doubt, then the attitude of the of the ECB or the EU to our bailout might be different.

[Mousey]

Errrr... whose bailout? All I've seen on my payslip in the past year is less money for me and more money into Fianna Fail's black hole!

[Westsidex]

My own take on that is if we had voted no on the second occasion, and our membership of the Euro or even the EU itself had been put in any doubt, then the attitude of the of the ECB or the EU to our bailout might be different.

It wouldnt be put in doubt nor could they throw us out but what it would have done is sent a very clear signal to the EU that we are Ireland first and foremost and are answerable only to Ireland first.

Westside.

[cavanman]

The gov wanted a YES vote because its another stepping stone to a single EU parliament and a world goverment. From here their little club can get wealthier and wealthier. Politics is no longer about democracy (assuming it ever was) its a business plaon and simple.

The most ruthless business of all,
Westside.

I voted no because I felt this EU parliament is less Democratic from an Irish point of view.

I dont think Ireland has really gained from the EU especially if you calculate the losses from our fishing rights taken. Now the pressure is on the Beef industry.

Heard recently that our biggest export is from Pharmaceuticals but I see this as connected to the US market.

It really is funny how this country can give our natural resources away so easily our fish, our gaz its almost like were children and cant look after these things ourselves and need a grown up to manage them for us.

[carlos marvado]

It wouldnt be put in doubt nor could they throw us out but what it would have done is sent a very clear signal to the EU that we are Ireland first and foremost and are answerable only to Ireland first.

Westside.

Agreed Westie, we are of course an independent sovereign nation (in theory anyway), but we also have a large and increasing sovereign debt and it might not be such a good idea to give our foreign creditors the two fingers.

[Westsidex]

we are of course an independent sovereign nation

We wont be for much longer the way we are going. You know i laugh at times when i see ppl say we need the EU. We allowed a load of EU non Irish ppl in over our boarders. In fact we are suppoed to be paying them to go. Thats is just fuckin laughable. We need the EU. The EU needs us to and we are needed to ratify shite like The Lisbon Treaty. When will this country grow some balls. My old fella used to say that this country is the way it is because most of the breeds with balls died in the Wars and The Irsh Civil War.

i agree with that to a point,
Westside.

[cavanman]

When will this country grow some balls. My old fella used to say that this country is the way it is because most of the breeds with balls died in the Wars and The Irsh Civil War.

i agree with that to a point,
Westside.

My old fella also said something like this and it was "All the best ppl emigrated"

[Smarty]

My own take on that is if we had voted no on the second occasion, and our membership of the Euro or even the EU itself had been put in any doubt, then the attitude of the of the ECB or the EU to our bailout might be different.

The situation was clear at the time the vote was on the ratification of the treaty.

At no time was our membership of the EU in question.

Don't be fooled that we are getting a "bailout".
Yes we are getting money from the ECB (Thats their job to give money to eurozone member states).
But it will have to be paid back with interest at a future date.

[Smarty]

Agreed Westie, we are of course an independent sovereign nation (in theory anyway), but we also have a large and increasing sovereign debt and it might not be such a good idea to give our foreign creditors the two fingers.

This always makes me laugh Brian Lenahan has always been more concerned with the attitude of international investors to Ireland rather than the citizens of whome he is supposed to be serving.

We may have to give the fingers to the creditors as Ireland is heading towards bankrupcy.

We had Nama and the banking situation but we also have a tsunami of personal debt that many people can't pay back. This will be the next thing to emerge.

We talked about China earlier but the ioronic situation is that "Communist" China is one of the few nations with a surplus of cash. In fact a lot of the money we borrowed or borrowing is originating in China.

[Smarty]

how about every decent road/bridge since the 1980s?
how about every inactive farmer's dole?
just for starters (eaten bread is soon forgotten!)

My friend i see you have been listening to the propganda machine of Fianna FAIL for too long.

Great they paid for roads in the beginning when Ireland did'nt have an arse in her trousers.

But........ For the last 15 years or so Ireland has been a nett contributor to the EU.
That basically means that we have been paying in more to Brussels that we have been taken out.

Plus we hav'nt a chance at getting any money like we were used to in the early days as countries like Romania and Bulgaria have their begging bowls out.