The EU is a joke

[Notabot]

The EU has lost all credibility. It has proven today it is no longer a democracy where countries can vote how they like. Threatening to remove Hungary's vote and drawings up plans to collapse it's economy if it doesn't vote to give Ukraine 50 billion of EU taxpayers money proves this. The fact the EU is willing to destroy it's own values to save Ukraine from while turning a blind eye to Israel is also laughable. In wanting to stop Russia it seems the EU has turned itself into Russia, no free vote any more you follow the line or suffer the consequences.

[Palatine]

The EU has lost all credibility. It has proven today it is no longer a democracy where countries can vote how they like. Threatening to remove Hungary's vote and drawings up plans to collapse it's economy if it doesn't vote to give Ukraine 50 billion of EU taxpayers money proves this. The fact the EU is willing to destroy it's own values to save Ukraine from while turning a blind eye to Israel is also laughable. In wanting to stop Russia it seems the EU has turned itself into Russia, no free vote any more you follow the line or suffer the consequences.

Unlike any part of the world under Russian control, Hungary is free to leave the EU any time it wants.

[Notabot]

Unlike any part of the world under Russian control, Hungary is free to leave the EU any time it wants.

Indeed it can. But what has that got to do with the EU taking away a nations democratic vote by telling them they will be punished if the don't vote how the EU wants?. Or are you happy for the EU to dictate it's member states without a democratic right to a different way?

[Palatine]

Indeed it can. But what has that got to do with the EU taking away a nations democratic vote by telling them they will be punished if the don't vote how the EU wants?. Or are you happy for the EU to dictate it's member states without a democratic right to a different way?

Hungary didn't have a vote taken away. Hungary voted to remove its veto. Hungary can decide to vote another way if it wants.

Other member states can of course put pressures on in other areas in their interests. That's realpolitik and is a feature of all politics. The only difference is that nobody is gonna send a tank into Hungary to change its mind.

[Notabot]

Hungary didn't have a vote taken away. Hungary voted to remove its veto. Hungary can decide to vote another way if it wants.

Other member states can of course put pressures on in other areas in their interests. That's realpolitik and is a feature of all politics. The only difference is that nobody is gonna send a tank into Hungary to change its mind.

Hungary was told that if it didn't vote with the EU and continue to block they aid package to Ukraine the EU would remove them from the next vote on the package. This was was confirmed by Leo Varadkar when he stated "he hopes it will not come to that" when asked about the situation. The EU also sent a memo stating how it could collapse Hungary's economy should it vote against them. A simple check by you will confirm both statements I said above are true. So with they above how is that not the EU forcing Hungary to vote how the EU says?. They literally threatened to collapse another EU economy to get what it wanted. How can you call that democracy?

[Palatine]

Hungary was told that if it didn't vote with the EU and continue to block they aid package to Ukraine the EU would remove them from the next vote on the package. This was was confirmed by Leo Varadkar when he stated "he hopes it will not come to that" when asked about the situation. The EU also sent a memo stating how it could collapse Hungary's economy should it vote against them. A simple check by you will confirm both statements I said above are true. So with they above how is that not the EU forcing Hungary to vote how the EU says?. They literally threatened to collapse another EU economy to get what it wanted. How can you call that democracy?

In my view Hungary having its voting rights suspended is long overdue regardless of anything. When you join a club, you follow its rules and Orban has been flouting basic democratic principles that all EU members are supposed to uphold. The threat of Article 7 removal of voting rights LONG precedes the Ukraine funding issue. The fact is that the EU has been letting Hungary get away with these issues in return for cooperation on Ukraine funding and Russian sanctions. So what Orban has done is been allowed to continue with breaking EU basic law with no consequences. Indeed, there wasn't even a clear threat to invoke Article 7 this time either. Didier Reynders, as recently as Monday said "it's not possible for the Commission to take a decision in the process". It's not much of a threat when you're saying it won't happen.

As for threats to collapse the economy, that's just childish nonsense.

Orban can block Ukraine aid all he wants. He only does it because he's a natural authoritarian who likes the cut of Putin's gib, and because it gives him leverage on blocking Article 7. This outcome is a victory for Orban. Not the EU which has chosen to be toothless on issues of basic standards of democracy in member states in order to support the longer term strategy in Ukraine. Orban's won. Not been bullied.

So basically it's the other way around. Orban has managed to give Putin a "ah well we tried" message while keeping Article 7 off the table, and Hungary can continue to be EU-oppressed to the point of being the 3rd largest net recipient of EU funding.

In my view Hungary needs to either sign up to following basic EU law and continue being subsidised, or piss off out of the EU if it doesn't like the rules- leaving the €4bn a year it receives behind.

If it decides to stick in the EU and follow rules then it can object to Ukrainian funding all it likes because Article 7 wouldn't even be a threat.

[Stephanie]

Hungary has been a thorn in the side of EU for quite some time :

- They are Not a ‘Law State’ : there’s no independent judiciary nor independent free press

- their education system is corrupted and made impossible by their govt ( Orban et. al. )

- it is a One Party State with no ‘free’ elections ; it is an autocracy by all means except in name

- they do Not hold to the EU requisites on issues of lgbt rights etc.

- they had refused NATO arms shipments to pass through their territory on way to Ukraine

- and most importantly ( as far as EU is concerned ) they consistently refused to take in

the mandated number of mass migrants ( they take None ) in their effort to retain their

National identity , in order to try hold onto their roots and indigenous culture .


Already EU had slashed the flow of €€€ to that country , EU aid spigot has been turned off ,

their economy in shambles , cost of living unaffordable even to the middle class .

The country is incomprehensibly corrupt , if they were to try apply for EU membership Today ,

they would not be accepted due to the corruption , lack of equality , lack of independent judiciary ,

Lack of Free Press , etc.




Until very recently Poland stood fast on very same issues as Hungary , but as of late last year ( ? )

Poland had acquiesced to accepting EU allocated number of migrants .

A blow to current political leadership , blow to their cultural future they tried so hard to hold onto .

// was it Poland 🇵🇱 that recently elected far right president / prime minister ?

[Stephanie]

In my view Hungary having its voting rights suspended is long overdue regardless of anything. When you join a club, you follow its rules and Orban has been flouting basic democratic principles that all EU members are supposed to uphold. The threat of Article 7 removal of voting rights LONG precedes the Ukraine funding issue. The fact is that the EU has been letting Hungary get away with these issues in return for cooperation on Ukraine funding and Russian sanctions. So what Orban has done is been allowed to continue with breaking EU basic law with no consequences. Indeed, there wasn't even a clear threat to invoke Article 7 this time either. Didier Reynders, as recently as Monday said "it's not possible for the Commission to take a decision in the process". It's not much of a threat when you're saying it won't happen.

As for threats to collapse the economy, that's just childish nonsense.

Orban can block Ukraine aid all he wants. He only does it because he's a natural authoritarian who likes the cut of Putin's gib, and because it gives him leverage on blocking Article 7. This outcome is a victory for Orban. Not the EU which has chosen to be toothless on issues of basic standards of democracy in member states in order to support the longer term strategy in Ukraine. Orban's won. Not been bullied.

So basically it's the other way around. Orban has managed to give Putin a "ah well we tried" message while keeping Article 7 off the table, and Hungary can continue to be EU-oppressed to the point of being the 3rd largest net recipient of EU funding.

In my view Hungary needs to either sign up to following basic EU law and continue being subsidised, or piss off out of the EU if it doesn't like the rules- leaving the €4bn a year it receives behind.

If it decides to stick in the EU and follow rules then it can object to Ukrainian funding all it likes because Article 7 wouldn't even be a threat.

That would require Independent Judiciary and Free Press at the very least .

That’s not going to happen so long Orban is at helm .

Opposition cannot even step on the playing field , let alone gain footing in elections .

It’s a One Party State .

I don’t know / don’t think there’s term limits .

[Palatine]

The election of Donald Tusk took the pressure off Poland for now.

Poland's relationship with Russia is totally different to Hungary's, so they're less likely to use the Ukrainian sitiation to gain leverage against the EU for rule-of-law problems.

Have no doubt, this has been a victory for Orban who has no issue playing chicken with Ukrainian lives and received another pass from the EU on resolving those rule of law issues that are foundational to EU membership.

[jessicabp]

I am not proud of my country…