new bill criminalising the purchase of sex

[Dom Dunn]

Oh and another thing there was a concerted effort which was sucessful under the previous prostitution law to close down massage parlours in Dublin in the 90s and while it was not against the law for a client to visit one, the Pigz were known on occassion to go so far as to visit a client's place of work to harrass them into giving statements against sex workers working in those establishments, so they have a track record of playing very dirty when pressure is applied on them by their bosses to get convictions! In the sex work history of Ireland, given the apparent sucessful clean up of Dublin Brothels/massage parlours in the 90s, it's a bit surprising that other ones came into being and weren't targeted with such gusto, when you thinlk about it!

Great posts as usual Lib.
One of the reasons the MP's went under was the dual effect of the advertising ban and the arrival of the mobile phone.
The MP's in the early years had a system in which you would pay an entry charge and then when the message had begun you would be described a list of extras. In some establishments the ladies were actively discouraged from providing a full service. A few times I actually had sex on the floor because the Massage bench was deemed to be too noisy when the action speeded up. This system eventually gave way to one in which you paid all the money up front with the understanding that sex would be part of the deal. Something similar to what exists today.
The advent of the mobile phone gave rise to the opportunity for escorts to become more independent and operate from the growing number of apartments springing up around the place. We also probably saw a reduction in street trading and a movement indoors a trend which seems to be universal.

[Dom Dunn]

It is worth remembering that the Gardai cannot enter premises without a search warrant, if they turn up at the door with no warrant, you don't let them in.

Sandy x

Good point Sexy. Indeed it may be difficult for the cops to get a warrant for a venue in which only a single escort was working. They of course will not be breaking any law only the punter should they pay for sex.
This gives rise potentially to one of the constitutional issues which might bring down this law ultimately i.e how can the escort be a party to the commission of a criminal act but not legally responsible for same.
The legal framework regarding this possible shortcoming has been explained elsewhere on the forum. However, they could of course knock on the door and attempt to put pressure on an escort to make a statement. If the escort is not aware of their legal rights
or if they feared consequences of not co-operating they may talk. Also some punters when confronted by the old bill e.g. when leaving a premises will shit themselves and confess on the spot.

[Sexy Sandy 69]

Good point Sexy. Indeed it may be difficult for the cops to get a warrant for a venue in which only a single escort was working. They of course will not be breaking any law only the punter should they pay for sex.
This gives rise potentially to one of the constitutional issues which might bring down this law ultimately i.e how can the escort be a party to the commission of a criminal act but not legally responsible for same.
The legal framework regarding this possible shortcoming has been explained elsewhere on the forum. However, they could of course knock on the door and attempt to put pressure on an escort to make a statement. If the escort is not aware of their legal rights
or if they feared consequences of not co-operating they may talk. Also some punters when confronted by the old bill e.g. when leaving a premises will shit themselves and confess on the spot.

That's why it's crucial that escorts & punters alike, arm themselves with knowledge & know their rights.

Escorts do not have to allow Gardai into their premises if they do not have a warrant. Escorts do not have to give any statement. You confirm your name & address & ask for legal representation.

Punters once again confirm your name & address & ask for legal representation.

Sandy x

[Bucko]

That's why it's crucial that escorts & punters alike, arm themselves with knowledge & know their rights.

Escorts do not have to allow Gardai into their premises if they do not have a warrant. Escorts do not have to give any statement. You confirm your name & address & ask for legal representation.

Punters once again confirm your name & address & ask for legal representation.

Sandy x

I dont think that is true as the escort does not own the property. Even then the guards or the police have the right to enter any property if a crime has been reported.

[Bucko]

It is worth remembering that the Gardai cannot enter premises without a search warrant, if they turn up at the door with no warrant, you don't let them in.

Sandy x

Unfortunately not true. Guards can enter a premises without a warrant. Here is a link explaining this in detail.
http://businessandlegal.ie/the-power...ion-in-ireland

[Sexy Sandy 69]

No we were given information from a sex workers organisation only last week, there was a meeting to discuss the new law. The gards have to have a search warrant to enter your apartment. An escort working alone is not breaking the law, therefore no crime is being committed. We do not have to allow the gards into our premises if they do not have a search warrant. However, if you allow them without a warrant then they have the right to search the premises.

As an escort, you inform the gards of your name, address & immigration status then ask for legal representation.

Sandy x

[Bucko]

No we were given information from a sex workers organisation only last week, there was a meeting to discuss the new law. The gards have to have a search warrant to enter your apartment. An escort working alone is not breaking the law, therefore no crime is being committed. We do not have to allow the gards into our premises if they do not have a search warrant. However, if you allow them without a warrant then they have the right to search the premises.

As an escort, you inform the gards of your name, address & immigration status then ask for legal representation.

Sandy x

Could i ask which organisation gave you this information Sandy?

[SteveB]

Unfortunately not true. Guards can enter a premises without a warrant. Here is a link explaining this in detail.
http://businessandlegal.ie/the-power...ion-in-ireland

From your own link,

“The Gardai’s power to enter and search premises are limited to

1. When they have a valid search warrant

2. Where there is a statutory or common law power to enter without a warrant (these circumstances are quite narrow, for example to attempt to assist if a building was on fire and people’s lives were at risk). ”

[Dom Dunn]

I dont think that is true as the escort does not own the property. Even then the guards or the police have the right to enter any property if a crime has been reported.

That can't be right. Who in this case would have reported a crime? Also I am fairly sure that the ownership status of the occupant of the premises does not matter and the cops still need a warrant.

[Dom Dunn]

From your own link,

“The Gardai’s power to enter and search premises are limited to

1. When they have a valid search warrant

2. Where there is a statutory or common law power to enter without a warrant (these circumstances are quite narrow, for example to attempt to assist if a building was on fire and people’s lives were at risk). ”

That would be my layman's understanding of the situation too SteveB.