“Gay Cake” Guilty Verdict

[bettercallsaul]

Yes it is "love thy neighbour" but nor should one be a stumbling block for another. It was not "loving" for a customer to seek to oblige the baker to sell that cake. And yet the baker is expected to be loving in reply? I see double standards here, as has been said, a dangerous precedent.

Going by the law here at the moment I would have thought the case would have went the other way,the Judge said he believed the bakers have a strong religious belief and our constitution protects that,I would have assumed as much of ours is derived from the U.K. the same would apply,obviously not.

[willie wacker]

Going by the law here at the moment I would have thought the case would have went the other way,the Judge said he believed the bakers have a strong religious belief and our constitution protects that,I would have assumed as much of ours is derived from the U.K. the same would apply,obviously not.

Since we have a Republic then we have a constitution. I don,t believe a country with a Monarch has a constitution, now I could be wrong.

[bettercallsaul]

Since we have a Republic then we have a constitution. I don,t believe a country with a Monarch has a constitution, now I could be wrong.

You are wrong,well only kinda... but still wrong

[willie wacker]

You are wrong,well only kinda... but still wrong

It,s not a constitution like we have the UK has no single constitutional document

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constit...United_Kingdom

[bettercallsaul]

It,s not a constitution like we have the UK has no single constitutional document

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constit...United_Kingdom

That's why you were only kinda wrong,but still wrong

[Best Before]

I would love to weigh in with something intelligent to say here, but I fear the PC brigade will never be happy until us heterosexuals are taking it up the Arse, just to prove we're not homophobic.

Many years ago in a well know temple bar pub I ended up chatting to some English geaser about fishing. At one point he moved into me personal space and tried to kiss me. I pushed him back. My actions were construed as being homophobic. That's a cross i'm going to have to bear.

Minority groups can't seem to grasp the notion that just because you're not gay or you don't have black skin that you can't hold an alternate view to theirs without them throwing down the discrimination card!!

[Devastator]

Well while I do not agree with the Cake Shop in question, it is their freedom of right to refuse a customer for what ever reason.
I don,t know why the gay couple did not move on to an other shop I do believe they knew what they were doing by going to that shop in the first place. A lot of wrongs here , so does that mean from now on , if you are refused a service now that you can now sue !!! A big can of worms opened here and the rights of small businesses have been eroded again.
I wonder if it was a muslim shop
1. Would the gay couple have gone there?
2 . Would the authorities have taken this matter to court?

Its hard to know if the cake buyer knew what they were doing but it certainly is possible. It may have been a genuine request and when refused they dug their heels in and decided to make a public and legal issue(so stubborn?) out of it OR they thought it would be refused and had the intention of bringing this issue to the public. They could have easily went to another baker but wanted to stick to their principles(so basically same arguement from both sides sticking up for their own "rights")

If it was Muslim? I dread to think....jaysus its bad/confusing enough already! Most people's a hles shrivel up at the very mention of the word Muslim because they don't know how to deal with it. People in NI struggle to get along with eachother after living side by side for many many years and are afraid of anything they percieve as being different to themselves.

Devastator
1. No I am not from NI
2. I do not think I would be wide of the mark to describe NI as the home of bigotry and discrimination. So kind of bizarre for you to level that accusation against me.
3. You assert the right of a customer to buy over the right of the business owner to choose not to sell. If the request was for a "happy birthday" slogan they would have no doubt been happy to oblige.
4. You represent an opinion that people cannot act or decline to act in accordance with their personal conscience. I think that is very dangerous, and violates the rights of those individuals.
5. Doctors and escorts were simply used as other examples where people may act in accordance with their own motivations or conscience but be interpreted by someone on the receiving end as discrimination.

1/ ok
2/ Yeah I would agree, it does feel like the home of bigotry and discrimination which is why I feel its important that we try to put a stop to it once and for all. I put that to you as it seems you have the same ideas as these people.
3/ ok
4/ I represent the opinion that I feel everyone should have equal rights no matter what/who they are. Unfortunately NI has been and is still being held back by staunch bitterness and people who want to keep NI in the dark ages. I am completely against people like that. Their is a bigger underlying issue here than this cake.
4/cont - See my 2nd post, yes it does happen, I could(but will not) go into further detail of having been on receiving end of racist abuse from customers and felt powerless as I needed my job! Its not my opinion to refuse people service but if I did I would have no comeback in my previous employment.
5/ It just felt you are confusing personal choice based on an individual basis with discrimination.


Right, my head is absolutely melted today, people have different opinions and thats great because it makes for an interesting discussion but I need to get away from this for at least couple hours

I'll leave with a little bit of humour to try and lighten the mode(stolen from an NI comedian)....because if we don't try to make light out of this F'd up little piece of land we will eventually go mad!!!

"Ashers...don't dare appeal!"

[willie wacker]

That's why you were only kinda wrong,but still wrong

Maybe I am but it is a total different doc to what we have and doe,s not give the same protection to it,s citizens as are constitution doe,s for us.

[Best Before]

SteveB - Theres no Belfast county

I'm glad there has been some sense and justice that has come over this cake row. For too long people in N.I have been able to discriminate and go against equality under the guise of religion. If you follow the news, or go into some areas of N.I you will see blatant racism and inequality against "minorities" is rife.

Ashers bakery(who refused to bake the cake) have had no problems for many years baking halloween cakes/buns so they rightly can not discriminate against the gay community and use religion as their excuse.

The bakers never refused to deal with the customer, he refused to print the message on the cake.



Gay marriage is Illegal in northern Ireland, so he's asking him to print something that is at odds with the law.
If I went into a baker or a T-shirt shop and asked for some merchandise saying "I support Murder". Do you consider the business owner within their rights to refuse my business?

Perhaps he didn't want to print the word "queer" which is a derogatory word to say the least!!

[SteveB]

The UK has no written constitution. Also, related to this is the idea that “Parliament is Supreme”, because it is argued, they are democratically elected, and in theory can pass any law they so choose.

These laws are Statue Law, as distinct from Common Law, or Legal Precedent.

In the Irish Republic, Parliament is restrained by the written constitution, but any law that is passed is still Statute Law.

It is not up to a court to “second guess” Statute Law. It means what it means, the literal meaning of the words on the statute. The Judge did say she believed the bakers have a strong religious belief, but as a business, Ashers was not exempt from discrimination law. She also said Ashers is "conducting a business for profit", and it is not a religious group.