Conclusion of Meeting with Minister

[Catriona]

Fitzgerald shows her hand immediately with the facile comment that you ''can't buy girls.'' Too right Frances. You also can't ''buy'' hairdressers, painters or chiropractors, but you can buy their agreed services over a set period of time. The nonsense of ''buying'' someone is straight out of the TORL handbook. As is the emotive reference to ''girls''. So no woman or man is a sex worker -- just girls.

And of course making sex work 'normative' is the kiss of death for any society. Just look at Germany, Netherlands or New Zealand where 'normative' sex work has presumably destroyed the nation. Meanwhile a proud history of censorship and sexual dictatorship from successive theocratic govts, accompanied by endless cover-ups of child rape and sexual abuse has made Ireland into the world leading powerhouse it is today.

It's interesting that Catriona didn't mention trafficking in her OP. I think the public assumed that this was the main driver of criminalisation. Did Frances push this agenda during the meeting or was it more about her personal distaste for sex work?

The trafficking didn't seem to interest her. I think she must have been coached by TORL as they know their stats are off. We requested to do a study before considering the law and she said a review would be better after the law is introduced. The review will be conducted in such a manner in future years - "oh it's successful!" and be rubberstamped with approval while sex workers are forced further underground.

The buying girls is just not an argument you can break down as it comes from a conclusion that women are defined by their bodies from a purely sexual aspect, which in itself pretty misogynistic.

Laura Lee explained how negatively the 1983 Act affected her and how it contributed to the death of a friend, but she didn't bat an eyelid. I was so annoyed about how much she wants to throw sex workers' safety under the bus.

[nibb]

As I said yesterday fair play to u catriona for your stance and I admire you for it. But this country seem to b run by sinister groups that sprang from church groups and they seem to b pushing these laws and ministers are only there for the money and they can't handle power . And they will all feed the media fire and warm there hands at it and smile to themselves. Nothing will happen. Just look at moment on tax dodging by Tds in the past one law for them and one for us .

[rubberlover]

Some of you are aware that yesterday I went with a couple of other girls to see Minister Frances Fitzgerald, unfortunately she wasn't interested in listening to our concerns. She thinks it's more important to send a message that you "can't buy girls" rather than to give us safe working conditions as making it difficult to work will prevent people from joining the industry. She didn't want to make sex buying "norminative".

She wanted to make sure people had access to services and doesn't want the new law to prevent that from happening. I tried to push the New Zealand model which has seen reduced demand and also creates a safer working environment.

Generally she was rather patronising of our opinions and wasn't going to budge on the issue as you know sex workers lives are something worth throwing under the bus to send some empty message.

Its a populist agenda so hence the lack of engagement. No way will any Irish minister contemplate regularising sex industry.With all the reporting on the IRA rape and SF inaction no way will this issue get any airing or support, unfortunately. All you can hope is that the Garda etc will use commonsense and target the real culprits of pimping etc.

[Davidontour]

The trafficking didn't seem to interest her. I think she must have been coached by TORL as they know their stats are off. We requested to do a study before considering the law and she said a review would be better after the law is introduced. The review will be conducted in such a manner in future years - "oh it's successful!" and be rubberstamped with approval while sex workers are forced further underground.

The buying girls is just not an argument you can break down as it comes from a conclusion that women are defined by their bodies from a purely sexual aspect, which in itself pretty misogynistic.

Laura Lee explained how negatively the 1983 Act affected her and how it contributed to the death of a friend, but she didn't bat an eyelid. I was so annoyed about how much she wants to throw sex workers' safety under the bus.

Very telling about the trafficking issue and one of the main reasons this was binned by Westminster last week. The stats are hopelessly off. This is about a moral crusade and sex workers' rights and safety count for nothing with these people.

[rubberlover]

So correct Nibb. Look at the bankers who ran out of the country, and all the developers who ruined the country are now back in business.This country leaders are spineless and self serving. We don't have a democracy, we have a click of families (holding on to the seat belonging to their father, mother brother etc etc) who run the country, and are no different than their forefathers. look hows installing the water meters, a company run by Denis O Brien, says it all................

[Davidontour]

It was worth a try but i'm not surprised, she was never for turning and its all about to be seen to be doing something, scoring points for herself and her party.
Even if the Bill had not been passed in NI she would still be going ahead and even more so now that it has.At least you tried.

Spot on. It was rejected in Westminster only last week, a much more important jurisdiction than the backwater of NI. Fitzgerald has very pointedly ignored this and is pushing ahead with a failed model.

[willie wacker]

Some of you are aware that yesterday I went with a couple of other girls to see Minister Frances Fitzgerald, unfortunately she wasn't interested in listening to our concerns. She thinks it's more important to send a message that you "can't buy girls" rather than to give us safe working conditions as making it difficult to work will prevent people from joining the industry. She didn't want to make sex buying "norminative".

She wanted to make sure people had access to services and doesn't want the new law to prevent that from happening. I tried to push the New Zealand model which has seen reduced demand and also creates a safer working environment.

Generally she was rather patronising of our opinions and wasn't going to budge on the issue as you know sex workers lives are something worth throwing under the bus to send some empty message.

I bet if 90 % of the voting public was in favour of your idea,s and not her views, she would not be long listening to you.( votes that,s all that count for her)
We still live in a religion dominated society

[Mickey O leary]

I'm actually quite annoyed at SF for supporting this Bill but they don't want to rock the boat and bring Stormont down or to a standstill as its a cash cow to them. When you got a cushy job with a big salary the core principles of your party just go out the door.
For us Stormont has been a total letdown,

[Lucy Chambers]

You know the problem with Sweden is it's too tied up with Feminist agenda and the problem with Ireland is it still has this whole Catholic Church married to the state issue. The minister was never going to do anything else, it's not about what's right or wrong really, it's about guilt.

[Catriona]

Spot on. It was rejected in Westminster only last week, a much more important jurisdiction than the backwater of NI. Fitzgerald has very pointedly ignored this and is pushing ahead with a failed model.

She didn't know it was rejected in the UK until we told her at the meeting. She mentioned Canada, where the Swedish model was passed there a couple of days ago. I explained to her that it was sex workers who were against it and so was most of the opposition. And the results of the litigation case last year shouldn't be ignored either.

I bet if 90 % of the voting public was in favour of your idea,s and not her views, she would not be long listening to you.( votes that,s all that count for her)
We still live in a religion dominated society

TORL has never done a poll on this law, so I think most people agree that the Swedish Model is a bad idea, but people vote TDs and others for different reasons and sex work is probably not one of their main concerns when balloting their vote.