New laws

[Curvaceous Kate]

I am not an expert but I believe the legal crux of the matter will be proving that payment has taken place. It will not be sufficient to arrest someone leaving the apartment of a known sex worker, I could be the cleaner for gods sake. The solution in my opinion is to find clever ways of paying for the service that cannot be related to payment for sex. There will be a legal requirement to prove a case and if the Gardai have to use scarce resources chasing bank accounts and transactions or whatever then convictions will be slow, or non existent. If we all get freaked out every time a Garda car passes as we are walking along the street then the law will be even more successful than ever. Know your rights if stopped, know what you are legally required to answer and answer nothing else, this is a good rule to adopt at all times anyway as it really pisses them off if they think you know what to say not to say.

The elephant in the room is the media, I suspect the Gardai will use puppet news outlets to publish photos of "suspects" the thought of a public outing will be worse than any fine.

If and when the law comes into force the first few cases will be headlines, after that, and if there is someone brave enough a constitutional challenge could see it defeated as it is impossible to criminalise one half of a transaction. Only my thoughts.

The clip that was shown in Sweden they had a tip off that a girl may be trafficked and the email showed her profile online. I think the person who tipped them off was genuinely concerned. They waited outside the address that they had been given by the person who wanted to help her until a client visited. They waited until he left and then they pounced on him outside the door. They asked him who he had visited and he said the name of the lady and used the name she was advertising as.

They then took him into their car, read him the riot act and fined him on the spot. That was all the proof they needed. They then watched her apartment for the rest of the evening and never once checked to see if she was okay or if she wanted help.

[Petros]

The clip that was shown in Sweden they had a tip off that a girl may be trafficked and the email showed her profile online. I think the person who tipped them off was genuinely concerned. They waited outside the address that they had been given by the person who wanted to help her until a client visited. They waited until he left and then they pounced on him outside the door. They asked him who he had visited and he said the name of the lady and used the name she was advertising as.

They then took him into their car, read him the riot act and fined him on the spot. That was all the proof they needed. They then watched her apartment for the rest of the evening and never once checked to see if she was okay or if she wanted help.

Surely they would need more proof than just a name? I have visited a lady on more than one occasion who works as an escort where the visit had nothing to do with sex or escorting! Suppose I didn't know her real name, only the name she works under and I was asked who I had just seen — by just giving her working name should not land me with a conviction!

[Curvaceous Kate]

Surely they would need more proof than just a name? I have visited a lady on more than one occasion who works as an escort where the visit had nothing to do with sex or escorting! Suppose I didn't know her real name, only the name she works under and I was asked who I had just seen — by just giving her working name should not land me with a conviction!

Maybe if the guy had refused the fine and they had to take him to court, but I guess that must rarely happen, as the guys just want to get out of there.

[Petros]

Maybe if the guy had refused the fine and they had to take him to court, but I guess that must rarely happen, as the guys just want to get out of there.

You could be right there Kate — take the fine or be exposed to your family as having visited a sex worker!

[SteveB]

In my opinion, and most other people’s opinion, the Bill will become law.
However, that is not guaranteed, and there is increasing opposition to it.
There is increasing opposition in the papers. Suzanne Breen in the Sunday Life and Fionola Meredith in the Belfast Telegraph, for example. There are many others.
Even the “gutter press” that sold newspapers by reporting untrue salacious stories about escorting are now concerned that if a DUP campaign for new “morality” laws gains traction, journalists will be reduced to reporting little more than what is in the local church gazette.
It is also seen as a DUP fundamentalist law. And people generally do not want the DUP and their camp followers telling them what to do.
Even if it becomes law in the North, it doesn’t follow it will become law in the South.
And even if it becomes law, it will need to be in force for a while for us to know how to react to it. No need to panic now.

[SteveB]

Just on a slightly negative note, if the Bill does become law, it is likely, especially in light of the DUP's lack of regard for due process, that it will not require much proof to convict anyone of an offence.

The wording of the Bill is likely to be such that if you are in a room alone with a person that can be shown to be a Sex Worker, (for example, by advertising on a site such as this) you are guilty.

[The Libertarian]

I was not hurting anyone with my punting habit...
I did my best to spot anything wrong like trafficking, pimps etc
Im financially independent, worth 2m approx
no wife kids so im thinking
Best to avoid escorting for a while..
Do a bit of travel...
Younger women these days really do love sex and dont have the inhibitions of the Eire of my younger days
Too much stigma here going out with older guy
But i want to stay in Europe and not South America or Asia
But where..any ideas?
Maybe poland, romania, ukraine...?

That is another reason why criminalising the punter is insane, we are the most valuable source of intelilgence in preventing trafficking and with the prospect of being criminalised, we will not be able to as directly help root out that evil, despite wanting to very much!
Germany and from what I hear Spain are good!

[The Libertarian]

The clip that was shown in Sweden they had a tip off that a girl may be trafficked and the email showed her profile online. I think the person who tipped them off was genuinely concerned. They waited outside the address that they had been given by the person who wanted to help her until a client visited. They waited until he left and then they pounced on him outside the door. They asked him who he had visited and he said the name of the lady and used the name she was advertising as.

They then took him into their car, read him the riot act and fined him on the spot. That was all the proof they needed. They then watched her apartment for the rest of the evening and never once checked to see if she was okay or if she wanted help.

And Voila, the reality of how this type of insanity is enforced -



The link on this thread -

https://www.escort-ireland.com/board...sting-A-Punter!

And an insightful comment of particular note by me -

Actually, when you think about it after viewing it, rather than viewing the Swedish Knacker police here as they astonishingly view themselves as angels of mercy, candidates for canonisation (along with Father Brendan Smyth and Father Sean Fortune) or for a Swedish Knighthood (like Jimmy Saville). we should view them as enablers of traffickers and pimps! Why, well, they have come across an instance where they have genuine reason to believe a woman is being pimped nastily/trafficked and according to their stats such a woman maybe forced to see 15 -20 men a day AND THEY WILL WAIT OUTSIDE HER APARTMENT AND WAIT FOR HER TO BE POTENTIALLY RAPED BY 15-20 CLIENTS, ARRESTING THEM OUTSIDE FOR BEING THERE, BUT DOING NOTHING TO STOP HER FROM BEING POTENTIALLY RAPED!These Pigz are psychotic indoctrinated nut jobs!
Also it's abundantly clear they are wrong in stating that clients effectively create nasty pimps and traffickers, ah no you still obviously have a trafficking issue, so therefore it's bad policing (fine collection outweighs rescuing a potentially trafficked woman) and bad laws such as this insane one!
THE GAME SHOULD BE UP FOR THE SWEDISH MODEL IN ANY CIVILISED SOCIETY!

[Petros]

Having watched that I can see why they might want to bring such laws in here — it's a feckin money making racket!

They can see punters are clearly willing to spend cash on visiting these ladies — by nicking them and offering them a fine rather than an appearance in court will generate revenue. The majority of those stopped will not want to go to court as this could lead to their families finding out where they have been so won't protest the situation and take the fine.

As can be seen from that video the cops don't care about the girl in the apartment — all they are interested in is nicking punters and retrieving fines off them

[The Libertarian]

Having watched that I can see why they might want to bring such laws in here — it's a feckin money making racket!

They can see punters are clearly willing to spend cash on visiting these ladies — by nicking them and offering them a fine rather than an appearance in court will generate revenue. The majority of those stopped will not want to go to court as this could lead to their families finding out where they have been so won't protest the situation and take the fine.

As can be seen from that video the cops don't care about the girl in the apartment — all they are interested in is nicking punters and retrieving fines off them

The State becomes the biggest pimp of all and a nasty one at that!