The Limerick Gardai Prostitution sting operation of December 2012.

[Paul Carr]

One of the posters on this thread on boards.ie

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057210598

says that 2 of the 21 men who pled guilty to soliciting prostitutes in Limerick in December 2012 subsequently committed suicide. Is this true? Can anyone verify this with additional links?

Also I vaguely recall an old man commiting suicide a couple of years ago in Dublin after he was convicted of purchasing sex from a Nigerian underage girl. Can anyone find me a link to that story?

[Davidontour]

As regards the ''2 of the 21'', if true, this is an appalling indictment on Irish societal attitudes.

Without wishing to get political, we have hundreds of people freely walking our streets who have been convicted of murder, we have people still in positions of moral authority who have overseen and covered up the rape of children and we have people who knowingly bankrupted the country, causing untold misery to millions.

Yet these men were quite possibly driven to suicide for the 'crime' of seeking consensual sex with another adult. What exactly does this say about our society and it's priorities?

[The Libertarian]

If it is true the senior pig who organised the 'sting' must be forced to resign as he/she is totally unfit to be a police officer!

[Paul Carr]

Here's the link to the story of the 64 year old man who took his own life after he confessed to Gardai he had paid for sex with a 15 year old minor.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/mot...237739771.html

[Davidontour]

I have to say the above story is absolutely indefensible, from either the mother or the man's viewpoint.

[Curvaceous Kate]

Here's the link to the story of the 64 year old man who took his own life after he confessed to Gardai he had paid for sex with a 15 year old minor.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/mot...237739771.html

It is hard to feel sorry for the man, when he knowingly had sex with a minor and worse still asked someone to source one for him. What they did was criminal and sickening.

[Empirical]

Here's the link to the story of the 64 year old man who took his own life after he confessed to Gardai he had paid for sex with a 15 year old minor.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/mot...237739771.html

I don't disagree with the sentiments expressed above, either the actions of the man or the mother.

But I would suggest that the "age of consent" is artificial. While buying/selling someone for sex, or any other reason, is disgusting, in bygone days sex by itself with a girl of that age wasn't illegal.

[Me4711]

One of the posters on this thread on boards.ie

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057210598

says that 2 of the 21 men who pled guilty to soliciting prostitutes in Limerick in December 2012 subsequently committed suicide. Is this true? Can anyone verify this with additional links?

Also I vaguely recall an old man commiting suicide a couple of years ago in Dublin after he was convicted of purchasing sex from a Nigerian underage girl. Can anyone find me a link to that story?

Hope this below from the said article is some insight, however I note the Gardai used undercover Female Gardai posing as prostitutes (On the Street) I always thought this is "Intrapment" & this type of thing is inadmissable in an Irish court ?

................................................................................ ................................................................................ .........

27 men charged with soliciting prostitutes

admin | December 7, 2011

Free legal aid refused to one defendant

FOLLOWING a garda sting operation where two female plain clothes detectives were located in the areas of Barrington Street, Mallow Street, Catherine Street and Pery Square, a total of 21 men have been convicted of soliciting a person for the purposes of prostitution at Limerick District Court. Twenty-seven cases were before the courts where details were heard of men making approaches to the two female gardai dressed in plain clothes,
and offering to pay them to perform a sexual act.
Twenty-one men, ranging from their late twenties to one man in his late 60s, were convicted after they pleaded guilty to the charges contrary to section 7 of the Criminal Law Act 1993.
Over the course of the 27 cases, presenting sergeant, Michelle Leahy, told the court that the Garda Operation, known as Freewheel, was conducted on November 19 and 30 last, where gardai made arrests after men, acting as clients seeking sex, sought to pay the two garda members for the purposes of prostitution. The majority of the cases, however, were arising out of another operation conducted this month when arrests were made on December 2, 3 and 4 last.
Judge Eamon O’Brien heard in court that most of the men were “embarrassed” and “sorry” for the “mistake” made in approaching and attempting to solicit the detectives for the purposes of sex.
The identities of the “decoy gardai” were withheld from the court proceedings as part of the ongoing battle against illegal prostitution in the city centre.
Opting to deal with the matter by way of imposing that the maximum fine of €470, determined by the Oireachtas, would be given instead to Doras Luimini and not the State, Judge Eamon O’Brien convicted 21 men where a total of €9,870 must be paid to the support group for migrants by March 13 next.
Six matters were adjourned for the defence to be furnished with a brief outline of the evidence while a bench warrant was issued for a fifth accused man who did not turn up to court to answer the allegations.
One man told the court that he was in receipt of social welfare and did not have the means to pay for representation at court and sought the facilities of the legal aid system, but was told that, “if he could afford to pay for ladies of the night, he could afford to pay for a solicitor…and that is the second oldest profession in the world”.
The men had addresses in Limerick city and county as well as North Cork and Tipperary.
His application was refused, and he was ordered to seek the services of a solicitor before March 13 next.
Gardai say that they will be increasing their crackdown on illegal prostitution rings attempting to operate in the city, while also targeting those that seek the services of prostitutes over the coming weeks.

[Curvaceous Kate]

I don't disagree with the sentiments expressed above, either the actions of the man or the mother.

But I would suggest that the "age of consent" is artificial. While buying/selling someone for sex, or any other reason, is disgusting, in bygone days sex by itself with a girl of that age wasn't illegal.

And it got changed for a reason. We all mature at different levels and ages and with regards to sex it is best to go with the slowest maturing age, to allow all youngsters the chance to mature naturally, so that consent is not a matter of peer pressure, but reasoned and willing participation.

The chances of any teenager actively seeking and consenting to sex with a near pensioner is very slim. Not quite the same as two 15 year olds who think they are in love and have sex.

[Empirical]

And it got changed for a reason. We all mature at different levels and ages and with regards to sex it is best to go with the slowest maturing age, to allow all youngsters the chance to mature naturally, so that consent is not a matter of peer pressure, but reasoned and willing participation.

The chances of any teenager actively seeking and consenting to sex with a near pensioner is very slim. Not quite the same as two 15 year olds who think they are in love and have sex.

Indeed there was a reason why the age of consent was raised from 13 to 16 in the UK in 1885. A yellow journalist, WT Stead published "The Maiden Tribute of Modern Babylon" which described how young English girls were being sold and bought into slavery, the "white slave trade". Stead had in fact bought a young girl under false pretences, had her "certified" as a virgin by two cronies, and had her taken to France.

The "white slave trade" was largely a figment of his imagination. But, nonetheless the age of consent was raised after much public protest within a few weeks of publication of his article. Nobody explained how this increase in the age of consent would deter the "white slave traders".

There are countries where 13 is the age of consent still.

But in Germany, for example, sex between a 17 year old boy and a 15 year old girl is treated much more tolerantly than that between a 64 year old man and a 15 year old girl.

In N Ireland, the age of consent (for girls) was 17 for a long time; the age at which people could marry, with parental consent, was 16—the age of consent here was actually lowered to 16.

How can anyone explain why it's illegal for someone to have sex with a girl aged 15 years and 364 days, when it isn't on her 16th birthday.

At one time in the UK, the age of consent was puberty, taken as 12 for a girl and 14 for a boy. I freely admit that I haven't yet totally clarified the "age of consent" and "age of marriage" thing in the UK; there was, for example, a 1929 Act stipulating that the age of marriage should be 16—as if it might have been possible to marry younger beforehand.

I'm not disputing the very unpleasant facts in the Limerick case. What I am doing is to suggest that the "age of consent" needs more than a knee-jerk response. It's totally artificial, it's origins in the UK are strange to say the least. What about a proper debate about it; what about something like the German model, where the relative age difference is taken into account?