on TV few moments ago....

[Patricia]

Both Ruhama (who might as well be selling ice creams from their vans) and ypourself are both extreame ends of the same stick.Neither are good for the industry.Just as Ruhama want to end all of it ,you will want it to increase (not neccessarily in a bad way for the girls concerned).Whats needed is a more heathly happy medium approach to the industry.Wont happen though because your profits will fall and Ruhama have to get real jobs.So basically it will stay the same.

Westside.

I don't know if I can agree with that. I think I'm right and Ruhama are wrong

However, I do agree E-I is not the solution to this problem either. That's why, when I'm often asked on here by you and others - "Patricia why don't you set up an organisation to help escorts?" - I say, it shouldn't be me doing this, we need a proper independent organisation, not something entirely funded and run by E-I.

[pigsmickey]

could start with only taking adverts from escorts who will allow reviews and have verified info.

[Epsilon]

could start with only taking adverts from escorts who will allow reviews and have verified info.

Unfortunatly I doubt that would work. Agencies and pimps will find ways of getting fake"verified" pics and fake reviews onto the site as well as all the other sites.
I think extra vigilance from punters will be a big help, If they report any suspected "trafficed girls" through this site or directly to crimestoppers.
If you read some of the reviews, they will say she realy wasnt into it, maybe that is a sign...Just my opinion..

[dreamon]

I have known a lot of escorts and i think that I am fairly sensitive to their feelings as I am there for the companionship as much as the sex. A large proportion of the "independents", advertised here are not really independent in the sense that they hand over a large part of their takings to someone else. There is a large number of European and South American (probably African also but I only do Caucasion/Latino) escorts who are what I call "contract" girls. They are imported to work for a period of time in accommodation supplied by their employer, who will also organise photos and advertisements etc. The crucial thing is that these girls came here to be prostitutes and with the knowledge of what was expected of them. Some may have had to service more clients that they were led to believe. Some may have been persuaded to supply more services than they had originally intended and some may have earned less than they had expected but I do not believe that any of them came here thinking that they were going to be au-pairs. Many are not happy with their lot for the reasons mentioned above but their attitude tends to be that they like it here and would like to come back as true independents. I never got the impression that any of the girls were interested in "escaping" from their situation.
Many of these girls are not prostitutes in their own countries but come here, knowingly, to earn a large wedge of cash in a short period of time and have some fun. I am often surprised at how hot and horny many of these girls are. The "organisers" provide everything including translators/receptionists. you often hear accounts in the reviews of the girl on the phone having far better English than the escort, which the reviewer met.
This is what the girls tell me of their owm accord and I do not like to ask questions, maybe I should. The question is, is this trafficking?, or is it only trafficking if the girls are duped or forced into having sex.

[Patricia]

The question is, is this trafficking?, or is it only trafficking if the girls are duped or forced into having sex.

I think - legally - it is not ok for anyone to arrange for a woman to travel from her country to work as an escort in Ireland, and this may well be considered trafficking.

However, I think trafficking in the escort business as it is popularly understood includes at least an element of the woman not realising she was going to be working in the sex industry, and further her not being totally free once she gets here.

I think I'd term what you are talking about as exploitation more so than trafficking.

I think the best way a country can combat exploitation of escorts is to not drive the industry underground and provide proper support services for escorts.

Look at the UK, the laws are practically identical to Ireland's laws, but escorting is much more accepted and the police and independent organisations are very much there to help escorts. Even better still, look to New Zealand...

[pigsmickey]

Trafficed or not, in all of its interpretations. misses the fundamental question. That is, does any of the cash handed over to an escort end up in the hands of criminal gangs in Ireland?
I have come to believe that, we punters will never know!!

[carlos marvado]

I would not be surprised at the courts attempting to use as broad a definition of trafficking as possible in order to tackle prostitution in Ireland. This could include "a person who was knowingly assisted by financial or other means, or solicited, to travel to Ireland for the express purposes of providing sexual services". Even telling an escort that she could earn more here and encouraging her to come to Ireland under her own steam, could, depending on legal interpretation be defined as trafficking. The courts have their own unique way of using the English language. As an example, remember the pro-life constitutional amendment some years ago. There were three parts to it: the provision of abortion here, the right to travel, and the provision of information.

The other great concern that punters should have, is that an "independent escort" who is caught working with one or more other girls, may decide to claim she was trafficked, in order to be more leniently dealth with by the courts.

My advice is consult your solicitor before getting into bed with a woman you are paying.

[pigsmickey]

What! consult a solicitor. that means driving round the pepper cannester for 2 hours, looking for the solicitor


OH u meas a solicitor,
but I only want to screw, not to be screwed!

[dreamon]

I would not be surprised at the courts attempting to use as broad a definition of trafficking as possible in order to tackle prostitution in Ireland. This could include "a person who was knowingly assisted by financial or other means, or solicited, to travel to Ireland for the express purposes of providing sexual services". Even telling an escort that she could earn more here and encouraging her to come to Ireland under her own steam, could, depending on legal interpretation be defined as trafficking. The courts have their own unique way of using the English language. As an example, remember the pro-life constitutional amendment some years ago. There were three parts to it: the provision of abortion here, the right to travel, and the provision of information.

The other great concern that punters should have, is that an "independent escort" who is caught working with one or more other girls, may decide to claim she was trafficked, in order to be more leniently dealth with by the courts.

My advice is consult your solicitor before getting into bed with a woman you are paying.

I dont know about you but I only pay escorts for their time and investment advice. I cannot help it if I am so gorgeous that they have to rip my clothes off and shag me.

[dreamon]

I read an article about this "trafficking" in the Sunday papers. Has anyone out there been with any escort that they felt might have been performing against their will?
I have to say that what amazes me about most of the escorts around today is their enthusiasm for sex. These girls are not faking it like most would have 20 years ago. I have had a couple who were just disinterested but none that struck me as anyway fearful or sad. I may be deluding myself but I think that I would get some vibe from the escort that something was wrong.
The big concern is that this "red herring" is being used to try to tighten the laws on prostitution