Sex offender list??
Hi Guys
I've been visiting escorts in the Dublin area for a number of years. I have one question that is scaring the absolute shit out of me. If I get caught by the gardai on suspicion of whatever like if they think I'm going to an escort will I be put on the sex offenders list?
This might sound stupid but I read it somewhere online the other night. I don't really go out and I visit a couple of escorts a month.
Please take this seriously.
Regards
Established Member
Certified E-I Addict
I checked you're on it Congratulations !!!!
Ok seriously I'm no legal expert but pretty sure you would have to be convicted of an offence in court to go on the list, plus pretty sure sexual activity with consenting adult doesn't qualify even if you paid for it
Last edited by Danny2011; 21-02-14 at 19:06.
jacklad3 (25-02-14)
If you have visited a brothel to engage in consensual paid for sex or visited an Indy for same, who is working alone indoors, you have not in current Irish law committed any offence at all!
With all the talk of criminalising the punter, initially a few groups were tending towards suggesting that a punter (male) on conviction of the then absurd crime of having consensual paid for sex should be put on The Sex offenders list, but hti was in their (TORL) first flourish and they were chancing it big time, more recently it has got diluted into fines, IIRC, it was said that by some TORL groups after the insane recommendations by the sham anti sex work and anti sex worker committee that male punters should be subjected to on the spot fines and possibly no criminal record! You see a larege part of their game is about getting funding for themselves by opening up new revenue streams getting the Government to give them more money to help 'Fallen Women' and 'self declared trafficked women' and these women will be helped by said orgs increasing their CEO salaries and creating cushty admin jobs for their buddies with this money! Another aspect of the game (TORL groups) is that they want to make active female sex workers suffer big time and justice committee recommendations strongly suggest this forcing sex workers onto the streets, denying Internet and phone access, this will lead to sex workers being killed!
Niall Colllins, FF 'Justice' spokesperson and committee member did recently call for the jailing of punters, when he was apparently disgusted walking through Limerick's RLD (actually every large town and city will have a street RLD, if those committee proposals come about as women will be forced onto the streets making the sex trrade vastly more visible and perhaps creating the impression with the public, it being in their faces now, that the polticians have legalised it).
RE legally equating as per proposals, downloaders of sites such as EI with downloaders of child porn if that was implemented We would be an international laughing stock!
Clyde (23-02-14), jacklad3 (25-02-14), The Equalizer (22-02-14)
I don't see how someone engaging in consensual adult sex can be a 'sex offender'. Surely a guy taking advantage of a drunken woman in a club by having a one night stand (often without protection) and dumping her the next morning is more offensive and unhealthy than one visiting an escort?
Also does anyone know how the purchasing sex law actually works in Sweden? For indoor activities, do police officers actually 'stake out' premises? Front doors, side doors and back doors? How can it be proved that money was exchanged? Or that sex actually took place? What about escorts doing outcalls? What is the actual definition of sexual services?
annabel taylor (22-02-14), Clyde (23-02-14), Curvaceous Kate (23-02-14), jacklad3 (25-02-14), kbond007 (22-02-14), Rachel Divine (22-02-14), Sexy Sofie (22-02-14), The Equalizer (22-02-14)
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At the moment and surely in future , to have a case , there must be proof.Originally Posted by Davidontour
One day watching an apartment is not enough , takes weeks , maybe a few months for the police to have a court case.
They must be absolutely sure there is "prostitution" going on and most important , two escorts are sharing. Also, they must see the apartment to be used by different escorts during the investigation period.
For that , the police must stay outside the premises , watching , gathering evidence , even stop clients and take their statement, in which they will say they paid money in exchange of services (sex). That is prove.
No used condoms are presented as evidence ( as far as I know) because the clients will say they had sexual contact with the escorts and more likely not used condoms , lube etc will be presented as evidence.
Outcalls are the less policed. (I think I am saying it correctly)
Not sure how to answer to that. Anything to do with sex in all it forms?!
Clyde (23-02-14), Davidontour (22-02-14)
Thank you for replying Rachel. I can see why the PSNI are reluctant to endorse what they know will be a complete waste of time and resources.
Northern Ireland has serious crime going on -- major paramilitary activity, violence, drug dealing, armed robberies (particularly now of the elderly in their homes) and endemic sectarian and anti-social behaviour. And let's not start on the parading and rioting issues. Neglecting these serious offences to concentrate on catching men having consensual sex (and the police are well aware how much of it IS consensual) is a total nonsense.
No doubt the PSNI will be allocated funds from an already over-stretched budget while sex workers will be allocated nothing.
My question regarding sexual services is a difficult one to answer, as there seems no practical definition available. Would a new law make it illegal to visit a massage parlour, a no-sex dominatrix, hire a stripper for a party, pay for visual sex on skype, lapdancing etc? Would paying for an escort as a purely platonic dinner date or simply for someone to talk to, be a criminal offence?
Rachel a lot depends if such increased criminalisation was passed on how seriously the guards would take it!
If the loons proposing it could succeed in portraying paid for consensual acts as ''paid for rape', it could change Gardai attitudes significantly!
The concept of 'strict liability' eg quite a lessening of the presumption of innocence applies in the recent change in the English/Welsh sex laws where a client has sex/ tries to negotiate sex with a coerced/forced/trafficked woman, under this it doesn't matter legally if the punter knew that the sex worker was in that such situation or not they are prosecuted as if they did know regardless, In Irish law it would be a current adequate defence for the client to claim ignorance!
I am not a solicitor, but strict liability offences are possible under Irish law!
RE the policing of the law in Sweden, No punter has ever gone to prison, punters of every class have been arrested under it (which won't ever happen here only working class men) and they are fined on the basis of their income. It's only enforced against male clients seeking sex from female sex workers, none of the other 3 adult to adult possibilities (all of which can and do occur) is ever porosecuted, thouygh all are technically illegal. Very worryingly, even though the Swedish law is supposedly about viewing sex workers as victims, who are officially decriminalised (most Irish sex workers under the current law are also decriminalised), female sex workers seem to be socially considered as being mentally ill and they have certainly had earnings confiscated and being threatened with having their children put into care to force them to give evidence against clients!
Also sex workers from Copenhagen agencies make the short distance to Malmo and Southern Sweden to cater for the Swedes who don't want to travel elsewhere and surely this is impossible to police!
The similar law in Norway (which The Conservatives, the major government party, have promised to repeal as it is so severe on sex workers) is also, in theory, applied to Norwegians seeking paid for consensually sex abroad, even where it is fully legal!
Last edited by The Libertarian; 23-02-14 at 14:12.
The Equalizer (23-02-14)
Interesting that you mention clients in Sweden being fined on the basis of income. The good news here is that clients purchasing sex won't need to worry about paying more than a fraction of any fines levied on them. Our own dear roman catholic church, when faced with huge damage claims for very much non-consensual sex between some of their employees and Irish children, simply pleaded poverty and got the taxpayer to cover 85% of the cost. Sorted.
Escort (Non Advertiser)
Certified E-I Addict
I'm not sure it would be too difficult to convict someone without seeing him having sex with an Escort, as all they need is to see the chap go in, time how long he is in there, then see him come out. Make their arrest, then go to the Escort and collect circumstantial evidence, such as condoms, wet wipes, costumes etc. That's one of the reasons why many were found not to be using condoms any more in Sweden and their HIV and STI count being so high.
It's a small fine, so they don't need dna for this kind of thing, just enough evidence to suggest what he was doing is illegal and then of course the lady gets evicted and the landlord is notified and will also get fined if he doesn't move her on.
The Equalizer (23-02-14)
Established Member
Certified E-I Addict
But surely the 'crime' is the purchase of sex? I know it's unusual, but some men do pay for escorts' time without sex actually taking place. Could such men be charged with purchasing sex even if none happened? Theoretically, an impotent man could therefore be charged with having sex.
Also, under such logic, a platonic friend or even a boyfriend of the escort could be charged with a crime each time he visits.
And most buildings have more than one exit. And the circumstantial evidence you mention can be flushed in seconds.
Couldn't an escort largely evade detection by concentrating on outcalls?
jacklad3 (25-02-14), Rachel Divine (23-02-14)
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