Very important- please get involved with consultation/submission before August 31st!!

[Morpheus]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Attachment 65498

Ha! Ha! Nice one Half man!!! As the saying goes..."a picture speaks a thousand words".

Folks I know these threads aren't popular but we only have a small window to have our say. And I do believe that if there are enough pro-escorting voices - the powers that be will be more cautious before bringing in any draconian measures that the TORL have suggested. Afterall politicians are very cognicent of votes.

You don't need to write a dissertation. Just write what you would normally post on a thread and email it in to the above. (Jack and Traveller have outlined all the details above).

And if you don't know where to start writing - just look at the special section Patricia started to deal with this debate on the future of prostitution legislation. The questions that Patricia outlines in that section are all taken from the Dept of Justice's consultation document. Just pick a few key questions from that - give some honest answers and email them in.

[the traveller]

I posted these links in another place here but one that is rarely read so here they are again in one handy post.
They are all relevant to a submission and I hope they help in forming an argument.

Nick Davies The Guardian How numbers have been exaggerated and exploited.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oc...en-exaggerated

Liam Clarke Belfast Telegraph Numbers in recent police visits.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/op...-16169164.html

The Local Norways news in English Oslo politician says "rip up law"
http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/rip...slo-politician

Anthony Andrew The Observer Police corruption in Sweden
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...me?INTCMP=SRCH

The Local Swedens news in English Sweden tops Euro league for rape.
http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/

A voice for men Swedens radical feminists.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism...ance-feminism/

Pye Jacobsson Swedish sex worker video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7nOh57-I8

Edith V Government Agent Cartoon of sex worker Funny but so true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw0fs...layer_embedded

I'm sure there are more out there and if anyone finds others please feel free to add to this list.
Perhaps if we ask Doodlebug nicely, as he's read Ruhama's annual report, he'll point out any relevant parts for a submission. This day next week is the last day for the submission so lets not sleepwalk into a world created by radical feminists and religious zealots.

[Jack in the Box]

Everybody- please check out the information in these posts including the links. There is plenty of ammunition for us to use in the submissions. It is important that a big effort is made to send in your point of view. It can be as short or as long as you want.

[Ric Hardgear]

emm no
I say this because Iam not persuaded by scare tactics and emotive language
I have yet to see EIs proposal on the way forward for prostitution in Ireland , we have the Govt/rhuma etc but I dont see a counter aurgument from the biggest player in prostitution
I want to see bullet points consise and clear ,you list their point and ei list or counter , then we can argue the merits without having to read through your emotive dictat,
Its very easy to say NO ,the Ulster Unionists lived off that for decades , but lets see what you guys propose ??

What is EI'S BUSINESS PLAN FOR THE WAY FORWARD IN THE 21ST CENTURY?????

[MollyM]

What is EI'S BUSINESS PLAN FOR THE WAY FORWARD IN THE 21ST CENTURY?????

I think Patricia and others from E-I regularly share opinions on this subject, but I would like to address this question here also, and I am working on the E-I blog on the consultation at www.sexwork.ie.

E-I will be making a submission to the government consultation on prostitution and as soon as that document is finalised it will be published and you can read it.

However, I do not believe it is E-I's place to say what prostitution legislation should be.

I believe the views of sex workers are the most important views we need to listen to here.

I would like to draw your attention to a 1980 report on prostitution published on the sexwork.ie blog at this address http://sexwork.ie/2012/08/23/girls-o...for-a-welcome/.

In 1980 a young researcher working for a TD spent 18 months talking to sex workers. He produced a report following this that was not a tale of "happy hookers" by any means, but did include and recognise the value of sex workers and their views. He argued for decriminalisation, for 2 girls to be able to work together for safety, for a "welcome" centre to be established for sex workers, with a former sex worker doing the main work. He said that the religious, the Legion of Mary at that time, were no help.

Over 30 years later, none of his recommendations have been implemented, and the religious are still being funded to say what is best for sex workers.

I'm don't think the religious should dictate what prostitution legislation should be.

I don't think think a commercial business in the sex industry like E-I should dictate what prostitution legislation should say.

In 1980 a TDs researcher was able to conduct research, to actually speak to sex workers and get their views. Why can we not do that in 2012?

I believe the government consultation on prostitution is not sufficient. I believe groups like Ruhama are in a position to use it to get their points across, but you cannot expect a public consultation like this to adequately collect the views of sex workers. We often see sex workers posting here who are very eloquent in getting their views across, but please remember for many sex workers English is not even their first language.

It is not reasonable to expect most sex workers to be in a position to go through a complex 50 page government discussion paper and answer 100s of questions, then attach their name and address etc to that document and send it off to the government. I believe this government consultation is an inadequate means of getting the views of sex workers and the government must make adequate steps to get the views of sex workers before any legislative changes to prostitution law are made.

I ask everyone here who can possibly make a submission to this consultation to please do that, sex workers, clients, whoever you are, please try and take the time and make a submission. Regards E-I, yes E-I will make a submission. In that submission E-I's concerns about the inadequacy of this consultation will be made clear, E-I will also share it's views, but please don't put providing the answers down to E-I here.

It is not E-I's place. Sex workers are the ones that need to be listened to here. If you agree that this consultation process is inadequate and the government should seek independent research before changing legislation, like was done in 1980 for example, please include that point in your submission.

Mollie

[MollyM]

Also todays news, http://sexwork.ie/2012/08/24/the-lan...r-sex-workers/

[Ric Hardgear]

yes i read what you said ,
think of this as a business meeting i want to see your power points , not read through reams of poli speak , consise clear objectives ...pros and cons

[MollyM]

yes i read what you said ,
think of this as a business meeting i want to see your power points , not read through reams of poli speak , consise clear objectives ...pros and cons

I suggest you wait until Monday, we are publishing an eejits guide then

[Ric Hardgear]

apart from those with self intrest , whos posting here?? work on your marketing skills , call it an eejits guide , someone with a bit more savy would try to embrace a wider audience and garner some support , but your arrogance makes me go mmmmmm wtf did you post in the first place

[Jack in the Box]

emm no
I say this because Iam not persuaded by scare tactics and emotive language
I have yet to see EIs proposal on the way forward for prostitution in Ireland , we have the Govt/rhuma etc but I dont see a counter aurgument from the biggest player in prostitution
I want to see bullet points consise and clear ,you list their point and ei list or counter , then we can argue the merits without having to read through your emotive dictat,
Its very easy to say NO ,the Ulster Unionists lived off that for decades , but lets see what you guys propose ??

What is EI'S BUSINESS PLAN FOR THE WAY FORWARD IN THE 21ST CENTURY?????

Ric Hardgear. We are fighting for your right to use this website.

There ARE people on our side of the sex work debate that have done heavy lifting and I salute them all.

It’s always good to think that organisations like TOTBL had/have more momentum but others still all have to do their part to help the cause regardless.

Also I have to congratulate those who put together that new website called sexwork.ie for taking a great initiative. Hopefully it kicks ass.

Non-English speaking sex workers could be reached better by the government. However at least the escorts that can speak English well can make their voices heard.

This is not something to turn up our noses at. When they changed the laws in England and Sweden there were complaints (rightly so) that sex workers and associates were not listened to.


So regardless of other situations every person who is against the aims of TOTRL needs to make their voice heard by sending in a submission.

Sex workers have been stuck with less than satisfactory laws for nearly 20 years now. There could be even worse laws in the pipeline and by the time precious Dail time is found to address them again some of the posters here could be in their graves!