The Swedish Model

[ladytron]

As far as I understand Ladytron, in Sweden punters are not jailed but fined a months salary and their names put in the papers!! Which to be honest is a fairly significant deterrent IMHO.

I have heard of clients opting for the prison term over the fine, albeit rarely. I based that comment on the worst case scenario and being treated to public humiliation is much better than prison where nobody treats you how you want to be treated. Remember they have to convict you first before they put your name in the newspaper, they can't put your name in the paper for doing nothing illegal and slander you based on circumstancial evidence; that's defamation.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Morpheus, please don't fall into the trap of giving Ruhama more power than the government is, it must be hard to see after this week, but they just aren't important, they do not have that kind of power at all.

They are the lunatic fringe on overdrive, and nobody gets into government without having the smarts to see that.

Government TDs have already distanced themselves from TORL (the launch was before an inevitable election...at which point you could have told anyone in opposition all about the cannabalistic rituals of your satanic coven and they would have signed up to support you).

Current legislation has been recognised as inadequate since it came into operation because it criminalises the women and because it makes sex work more dangerous. They cannot completely decriminalise women without decriminalising men...and they know, because this is a recession, that if they just decriminalise there will be a public order nightmare on the streets, just as there was in the early 90s - with loads of extra sex workers and not enough business to go around.

If the interfere with mobile phones they will just be forcing sex work onto the streets, and the element of invasion of privacy is alarming. People are not silly, they do tend to notice that Ruhama are getting funded to *help* sex workers, and always have the hand out for donations to help sex workers, but all they do apart from that is make life difficult for sex workers...

Politicians notice that Ruhama are, to all intents and purposes, functioning as nothing more than a backdoor immigration service, because, apart from a few women looking for residency, nobody will go near them.

...and the government are using every trick in the book to stall legislation...meanwhile the 3 or 4 years strand of funding allocated to Ruhama in respect of trafficking runs out this year.

The government are simply not allocating funds just so people can lobby against them any more...there isn't any money left for such foolishness.

[Morpheus]

Morpheus, please don't fall into the trap of giving Ruhama more power than the government is, it must be hard to see after this week, but they just aren't important, they do not have that kind of power at all.

They are the lunatic fringe on overdrive, and nobody gets into government without having the smarts to see that.

Government TDs have already distanced themselves from TORL (the launch was before an inevitable election...at which point you could have told anyone in opposition all about the cannabalistic rituals of your satanic coven and they would have signed up to support you).

Current legislation has been recognised as inadequate since it came into operation because it criminalises the women and because it makes sex work more dangerous. They cannot completely decriminalise women without decriminalising men...and they know, because this is a recession, that if they just decriminalise there will be a public order nightmare on the streets, just as there was in the early 90s - with loads of extra sex workers and not enough business to go around.

If the interfere with mobile phones they will just be forcing sex work onto the streets, and the element of invasion of privacy is alarming. People are not silly, they do tend to notice that Ruhama are getting funded to *help* sex workers, and always have the hand out for donations to help sex workers, but all they do apart from that is make life difficult for sex workers...

Politicians notice that Ruhama are, to all intents and purposes, functioning as nothing more than a backdoor immigration service, because, apart from a few women looking for residency, nobody will go near them.

...and the government are using every trick in the book to stall legislation...meanwhile the 3 or 4 years strand of funding allocated to Ruhama in respect of trafficking runs out this year.

The government are simply not allocating funds just so people can lobby against them any more...there isn't any money left for such foolishness.

Thank you Labelle (as always). You always make such sense. I am a great admirer of yours for all you say and your insights. But even more so for your resilience in fighting this fight over so many years. You are a true survivor, and deserve to be a Byzanthine Empress! You were just born a few centuries too late!!

I wish I had your optimism though. I fully agree the money is running out and that will be a blow to Ruhama. It will be interesting to see what their funding is this year. 700 K is pretty good going for any NGO!

You're also right about politicians backing any and every horse before an election. Lets hope they stay true to their form and forget all promises to the TORL as they have done to most other lobbies.

For the record (for the benefit of visitors to the forum), I abhor any form of human trafficking and agree that measures should be taken to stop trafficking and coercion of women for sex work. (And I'm sure that all our regular forum participants will agree with me on this).

However, the automatic assumption that every sex worker/escort/ prostitute is a trafficked (and coerced) person simply isn't true and this is the bone of our contention with the likes of Ruhama and the TORL.

This and the complete lack of acceptance by the above organisations that women can and do make a choice to do sex work is the other bone of contention.

[LaBelleThatcher]

This and the complete lack of acceptance by the above organisations that women can and do make a choice to do sex work is the other bone of contention.

I am going to add the third, perhaps most urgent, point:

If a women feels that sex work is her only realistic option, for any reason, this does not mean her intellect or judgement is in any way defective. In the majority of cases it means that she is, very probably, right, and that being so, anyone in a more privileged position with any kind of integrity who cannot any offer real, appropriate assistance (not tokenism and lip service) should stand aside and leave her in peace to save herself...

I am sure you know Morpheus, any admiration is only mutual.

[Morpheus]

I am going to add the third, perhaps most urgent, point:

If a women feels that sex work is her only realistic option, for any reason, this does not mean her intellect or judgement is in any way defective. In the majority of cases it means that she is, very probably, right, and that being so, anyone in a more privileged position with any kind of integrity who cannot any offer real, appropriate assistance (not tokenism and lip service) should stand aside and leave her in peace to save herself...

I am sure you know Morpheus, any admiration is only mutual.

The statement below is taken from the Ruhama mission statement:

Ruhama works from a position of respect and uncritical acceptance of the women and seeks to actualise belief in their inner capacity to effect change in their own lives.


It's funny how "uncritical" doesn't seem to encompass the women who feel what you have outlined above Labelle!!

[LaBelleThatcher]

The statement below is taken from the Ruhama mission statement:

Ruhama works from a position of respect and uncritical acceptance of the women and seeks to actualise belief in their inner capacity to effect change in their own lives.


It's funny how "uncritical" doesn't seem to encompass the women who feel what you have outlined above Labelle!!

Ah well, you see, "uncritical" was only ever intended to apply to truly penitent women, who think, speak and do only as they are told.

[lazarus]

The Swedish Model seems alright because King Carl Gustaf of Sweden was seen in a brothel :-P and what is good for the King is good for the Servant.