The Swedish Model

[MrFussy]

Single patents lobby where......in Dublin...not that frightening...I have not heard
There is no WIN, there is containment, fact!

[LaBelleThatcher]

Single patents lobby where......in Dublin...not that frightening...I have not heard
There is no WIN, there is containment, fact!

If you haven't heard of the rapid rise of a militant single parent's lobby then you are too far out of touch altogether to have the first clue what you are talking about.

[MrFussy]

Or maybe it's just that I am based in Reality land and you are in LaBelle land...

[Incognito]

Serious thread here being taken way off topic:

[LaBelleThatcher]

Brock that really is an excellent analysis of the constitutional difficulties.

Raises a couple of questions, for example just how would such a law establish whether there has been payment and who is the payer and who the payee without expecting one party to testify against the other in a conflict of interest situation.

That *HAS* to be some kind of legal minefield!

If, as has been suggested, the law moves in on electronic communications while legalising the selling of sex it most definately will force many indoor sex workers out onto the streets.

Contrary to beliefs that is not necessarily more dangerous...swings and roundabouts really as long as it is decriminalised, but it most definately *is* a bigger public order issue...and what would that achieve?

[ladytron]

The Swedish model doesn’t work; it will only push the industry underground where nobody can keep an eye on the woman at all. The basic premise of the Swedish model is “out of sight, out of mind” which is why the Swedish government provides false statistics to back up their claim it decreases street prostitution and human trafficking. I find the Swedish model anti-feminist even though it descriminates against men in law because it prevents woman from making the choice to become a sex worker in a safer environment as they are forced underground; amazing, a model that discriminates against both men and women.

Anyway the Swedish model won't be implemented here; prisons are over-crowded to the point 15% of inmates are released on parole before their sentence is up, therefore the last thing they need is a new influx of inmates and if they were to prosecute clients here, they would have to have more prisons than schools to lock us all away.

[LaBelleThatcher]

I find the Swedish model anti-feminist even though it descriminates against men in law because it prevents woman from making the choice to become a sex worker

That is the bottom line...feminism isn't about forcing the world to submit to the will of a self appointed feminist elite, it is about giving women the *CHOICES* biology denied to us for millennia, to use as *we* please and see fit.

[Morpheus]

Thank you Brock for your helpful post as always. You seem to have a clear understanding of the constitution and legislation in ireland which is helpful in these discussions.

One question though? How is such a law legal in Sweden - that one party can be prosecuted and the other not? I fear that our Minister for Justice is takne in by Ruhamma and the TORL and there may be some loop hole to bring in such measures.

I haven't been following all of the raids thread (because it just goes on and on!!) - but I think it signals a new thrust of the garda in regard to escorting. Regardless of the outcome or lack of - I think it may be a more common phenomenon in times to come. And Doodles has already commented in another thread that the legality for the punter almost doesn't matter - the court of common opnion alone is enough to cause enough damage. I can see the garda raiding premises and kicking out (but not arresting punters), and punters will only exit to meet a flotila of cameras led by Paul Connolly and crew!!! This only will need to happen ever so often to produce a significant fear factor.

I digress,...... From all Brock says it sounds like they just can't bring in the Swedish model en bloc. But I do think there is going to be some form of legislation change to appease Ruhamma , the TORL and all their backers (it's amazing what organisations have put their support behind them). Not sure what the change wil be but I can't see it being positive.

Also Ruhama have been pushing for mobile companies to block phone numbers being used by traffickers - ie. escorts phone numbers!!(Because to Ruhama any escort is a trafficked woman.) Thankfully I can't see mobile companies buying into this. Their other thrust is to get internet service providers to block escorting websites!!! Talk about going back to the dark ages....Oh I forgot the Magdalene laundries (birth place of Ruhamma) was from the dark ages!

[Morpheus]

The Swedish model doesn’t work; it will only push the industry underground where nobody can keep an eye on the woman at all. The basic premise of the Swedish model is “out of sight, out of mind” which is why the Swedish government provides false statistics to back up their claim it decreases street prostitution and human trafficking. I find the Swedish model anti-feminist even though it descriminates against men in law because it prevents woman from making the choice to become a sex worker in a safer environment as they are forced underground; amazing, a model that discriminates against both men and women.

Anyway the Swedish model won't be implemented here; prisons are over-crowded to the point 15% of inmates are released on parole before their sentence is up, therefore the last thing they need is a new influx of inmates and if they were to prosecute clients here, they would have to have more prisons than schools to lock us all away.

As far as I understand Ladytron, in Sweden punters are not jailed but fined a months salary and their names put in the papers!! Which to be honest is a fairly significant deterrent IMHO.

However, as Brock has pointed out there may be more constitutional reasons why they can't just implement the Swedish model as is.

[ladytron]

I can see the garda raiding premises and kicking out (but not arresting punters), and punters will only exit to meet a flotila of cameras led by Paul Connolly and crew!!!

Just to put things into perspective; you're more likely to die in a car accident yet that doesn't stop you from driving. And even if that did happen, you could play "the sex addict" card; it worked for tiger woods. Hugh Grant got caught with a street hooker in his car; seems to be doing fine. Alternatively, you could move to the UK, Australia or New Zealand for 15 years; by then the general public in Dublin will have forgotten all about it.