The manslaughter law is just wrong

[Anna23]

http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/we-...r-3061956.html

[TomEA]

Disgusts me how someone can physically do that. Send them to prison for life if you ask me, let's hope they only get what they deserve.

[Toptatts]

The DPP should not have accepted a manslaughter plea from any of them. They attacked an innocent person for no other reason than to harm him. The minute any of them admitted that there was no valid reason for the assault (Self defence is about the only one I can think of offhand) it should have stopped being "Manslaughter" and become "Murder" for all of them. As it is they'll probably get 6 years and be lucky to serve 4 when good behaviour and time on remand is taken into account. Murder should carry a life sentence and life should mean life, the rest of your natural. Only let them leave prison in a 6ft6 wooden box.
It would be nice to hear from "Banjaxed on this for a profesionals point of view!

[UKHeather]

Sickening. The poor man.

[ladiesman217]

Hold the phone.... 1 guy is charged with murder and the other 2 just manslaughter as they pleaded not guilty to murder? kinda sick joke is that?? Lock them all up for life and throw away the key!

[Doozer]

Just goes to show.how some.people.in our society view and.value life. Sickening and senseless actions

[Banjaxed]

The DPP should not have accepted a manslaughter plea from any of them. They attacked an innocent person for no other reason than to harm him. The minute any of them admitted that there was no valid reason for the assault (Self defence is about the only one I can think of offhand) it should have stopped being "Manslaughter" and become "Murder" for all of them. As it is they'll probably get 6 years and be lucky to serve 4 when good behaviour and time on remand is taken into account. Murder should carry a life sentence and life should mean life, the rest of your natural. Only let them leave prison in a 6ft6 wooden box.
It would be nice to hear from "Banjaxed on this for a profesionals point of view!

More than happy to oblige, though I must stress that I am not yet a professional and have some years to go.

Firstly I'll deal with the issue of Manslaughter, a common law offence. It's essentially any unlawful killing that isn't murder (as defined by s.4 of Criminal Justice Act 1964), in that the accused didn't have the required intent. So it applies where someone brings about the death of another by causing harm to them (in this case, an assault) but where they didn't intend to cause serious harm or death to that person.

It's all very subjective (it's all based on the intention of the accused), and it seems that the available evidence on the role of the two lesser accused supported their being charged with manslaughter in that they lacked the required intent to cause serious harm or death. The classic case of this is R v Holzer, where a man punched another in head causing that man to fall, hit his head on the kerb and die from the head injury. Mr Holzer had only intended to "cut the accused's lip" and denied wanting to cause serious harm. The evidence supported that, and he was convicted of manslaughter.

Usually there's a lot of horsetrading that goes on in these cases, and some prosecuting counsel approach it from the position of going with a plea of guilty to manslaughter rather than risk the jury going against the prosecution, and leaving that particular counsel having egg on his/herface and possibly not getting a case from the DPP in future. A classic case in point was the recent one of DPP v Claire Nolan who was twice tried for murder but the jury couldn't agree, so next time they just accepted her plea of manslaughter and she was duly convicted.

[very shy guy]

Hold the phone.... 1 guy is charged with murder and the other 2 just manslaughter as they pleaded not guilty to murder? kinda sick joke is that?? Lock them all up for life and throw away the key!

Well said that Ferret,pity you were not the judge LDM.

[Anna23]

Usually there's a lot of horsetrading that goes on in these cases, and some prosecuting counsel approach it from the position of going with a plea of guilty to manslaughter rather than risk the jury going against the prosecution, and leaving that particular counsel having egg on his/herface and possibly not getting a case from the DPP in future. A classic case in point was the recent one of DPP v Claire Nolan who was twice tried for murder but the jury couldn't agree, so next time they just accepted her plea of manslaughter and she was duly convicted.

See thats the problem here and not only in such serious cases. Its not at all about what is or isnt fair but more about what an impact will acting of the concerned law people have on their future career lives. The victims and the offender they will deal with only once in their life and its one of many hundreds of cases to them, no more no less. Where as with the DPP's, gardai, judges etc, they will come into contact on a daily basis in the future and nobody wants to fall out with these coleagues and make the job harder for themselves.
It takes a character to be able to stand up to this societal status quo. And unfortunatelly in our society there are more people who like to beat up someone just for the buzz than real characters.

It just reminded me that my czech friend was once just walking on the street when some irish guys started to make fun of his umbrella and then beaten him up for no reason at all. It could have been the same guys. It could have been him dead. Or it could be me...

I would have zero tolerance where people think its ok to physicaly fight for no reason.

[Banjaxed]

See thats the problem here and not only in such serious cases. Its not at all about what is or isnt fair but more about what an impact will acting of the concerned law people have on their future career lives. The victims and the offender they will deal with only once in their life and its one of many hundreds of cases to them, no more no less. Where as with the DPP's, gardai, judges etc, they will come into contact on a daily basis in the future and nobody wants to fall out with these coleagues and make the job harder for themselves.
It takes a character to be able to stand up to this societal status quo. And unfortunatelly in our society there are more people who like to beat up someone just for the buzz than real characters.

It just reminded me that my czech friend was once just walking on the street when some irish guys started to make fun of his umbrella and then beaten him up for no reason at all. It could have been the same guys. It could have been him dead. Or it could be me...

I would have zero tolerance where people think its ok to physicaly fight for no reason.

It works that way from minor offences (District Court Criminal) to the Central Central Court (High Court hearing criminal cases). All the solicitors, barristers, gardai/DPP, judges, etc. all know each other and so there's always little huddles about what the DPP is looking for or will they object to probation or suspended sentence. It can sometimes result in decent people getting sent down and less than decent people getting off, etc.

As you say, when it happens on prosecuting Barristers (there's a select list who the DPP hands out the prosecution cases to) it's usually about career, but being a defence solicitor or barrister is always an advantage as you generally don't give a shit about what happens to your client, you're just going to make sure you get paid in full and give it a "lash" in Court. Hence why it reminds me of escorting, but there's a huge gap in how the two areas of work are regarded in the public mind.