An appeal to all escorts

[Jack in the Box]

LaBelleThatcher, Doodlebug,

A twin track approach might be needed. In the short term for starters I think that SWAI is our best bet. They certainly beat Ruhama any day. If there is a danger that legislation will be rushed through the Dail to criminalise the clients of sex workers (plus cause a load of other problems) then some organisation has to tell the government that there are x escorts out there that can make their own mind about their occupations and do not need a nanny state. This will also stop Ruhama and the ICI going around saying that there are only a "tiny few" sex workers not forced into their occupations. It will also stop them insulting people by saying that nearly all escorts were abused as children.

By all means have an organisation more streamlined to the needs of sex workers. But this will take time to set up.

Personally I have an interest in both SWAI and any other organisation that supports genuine rights for people. That is why I have made enquiries about Turn Off The Blue Light in another thread.

Escorts given a proper say will make a powerful force as they have first hand knowledge of the adult industry. The same as a plumber or electrcian would know the best way to put pipes or wires into a building for example.

[LaBelleThatcher]

Advocacy with your voice, of course. Maybe I'm too used to Gombeenism, but surely there's always room for people to say what you want them to say?

Why?

When we can say it better for ourselves and not need a salary for it.

That is what is wrong with the whole "voluntary and community sector" people making jobs for themselves by gagging others so the can insist on speaking for them (and generally chucking in all sorts of agenda driven BS as well).

[LaBelleThatcher]

I'll pay him ten bob a tit and a fiver for his arse

There you are Doodlebug, we'll have you qualified as a full time, career sex worker before you know it.

[Banjaxed]

Why?

When we can say it better for ourselves and not need a salary for it.

That is what is wrong with the whole "voluntary and community sector" people making jobs for themselves by gagging others so the can insist on speaking for them (and generally chucking in all sorts of agenda driven BS as well).

I understand, but surely support (i.e.: that being without an agenda or salary) is a good thing. It's more about echoing than leading the chant. It is clearly self-evident that only those who have experience of the industry and situation can lead it.

[LaBelleThatcher]

LaBelleThatcher, Doodlebug,
A twin track approach might be needed. In the short term for starters I think that SWAI is our best bet.

Why?

They have never actually *DONE* anything and respond to any attempt at contact two weeks later, if at all...

They certainly beat Ruhama any day.

Why either?

If there is a danger that legislation will be rushed through the Dail to criminalise the clients of sex workers (plus cause a load of other problems) then some organisation has to tell the government that there are x escorts out there that can make their own mind about their occupations and do not need a nanny state.

Honestly, you would have more joy invoking satan that getting hold of SWAI, let alone getting them to do anything. The only crop up when there is a chance for media exposure...

...anyway, that is what I rose from my tomb to sort (and LET THAT BE A LESSON TO YE...you will NEVER raise old Nick himself by mixing plonk from LIDL with the human blood during the invocation, be thankful you got ANYONE ) that cheap!)

This will also stop Ruhama and the ICI going around saying that there are only a "tiny few" sex workers not forced into their occupations. It will also stop them insulting people by saying that nearly all escorts were abused as children.

Are they STILL at that? I thought they went ALL QUIET when "one in 5" became and international catchphrase around child sex abuse and their statistics were about level with it.

The only connection I have ever been able to see between sex work and childhood abuse is structural in that coming from an abusive, or just dysfunctional family is likely to leave you with with less support, resources and options for life. I was going to say that only affects crisis and survival sex workers, but thinking about it is may well be a factor in some elective sex workers too - I can well see how a person could make sex work a positive choice to support other choices that the do not have a loving family to support, and that makes great sense too.

By all means have an organisation more streamlined to the needs of sex workers. But this will take time to set up.

Doesn't seem to take anyone else ages to set up a user group, I have seen them up and running and lobbying at top level in weeks in the past couple of years.

Personally I have an interest in both SWAI and any other organisation that supports genuine rights for people. That is why I have made enquiries about Turn Off The Blue Light in another thread.

Escorts given a proper say will make a powerful force as they have first hand knowledge of the adult industry. The same as a plumber or electrcian would know the best way to put pipes or wires into a building for example.

Actually, being honest, there should only be two separate kinds of voice in the sex industry:

• Sex Workers
• Commercial Service providers

There is no room for professional do-gooders "tithing" the issue for any kind of gain at all.

Ruhama "rose to power" on promising to fight back against the '93 act. I have witnessed, at first hand, people who still work for Ruhama promising the women that they would always fight criminalisation.

Yeah, right...I can see that now...

[LaBelleThatcher]

I understand, but surely support (i.e.: that being without an agenda or salary) is a good thing. It's more about echoing than leading the chant. It is clearly self-evident that only those who have experience of the industry and situation can lead it.

The trick is making sure they leave it at that, rather than appointing themselves to lead without even consulting anyone in their user group...which is what usually seems to happen...

We really need to get to grips with a position of strength before letting anyone within a mile...and we need to make that clear in public.

We also need to get outreach going to all the other sectors of the sex industry...the street workers, the rent boys, lapdancers - everyone.

The need for anonymity was always an insurmountable a barrier to a sex worker representative organisation...but now, with the internet, it does not need to be any more.

[Banjaxed]

The trick is making sure they leave it at that, rather than appointing themselves to lead without even consulting anyone in their user group...which is what usually seems to happen...

We really need to get to grips with a position of strength before letting anyone within a mile...and we need to make that clear in public.

We also need to get outreach going to all the other sectors of the sex industry...the street workers, the rent boys, lapdancers - everyone.

The need for anonymity was always an insurmountable a barrier to a sex worker representative organisation...but now, with the internet, it does not need to be any more.

Yes, I agree completely. That's where I'm coming from.

Nature hates a vacuum

[Jack in the Box]

LaBelleThatcher

Just a brief response to your posts for now. You point is taken that there is a danger of an organisation drifting completely away from what the sex workers wanted in the first place. It is interesting the way you pointed out that during the history of Ruhama. But that probably won't happen with SWAI over the next 6 months to a year and one way or another we need to get out there and start demolishing the arguments that Ruhama and friends put up.

I would be over the moon if a sex worker's led organisation started up. But it hasn't happened at this point in time. Also a significant amount of publicity needed is still via tv, radio and papers and not just on social media sites.

[carlos marvado]

LaBelleThatcher

Just a brief response to your posts for now. You point is taken that there is a danger of an organisation drifting completely away from what the sex workers wanted in the first place. It is interesting the way you pointed out that during the history of Ruhama. But that probably won't happen with SWAI over the next 6 months to a year and one way or another we need to get out there and start demolishing the arguments that Ruhama and friends put up.

I would be over the moon if a sex worker's led organisation started up. But it hasn't happened at this point in time. Also a significant amount of publicity needed is still via tv, radio and papers and not just on social media sites.

And that is the important point and I think it is very unlikely to happen.

Whilst I agree with LaBelleThatcher in the sense that working or former escorts would probably be the best people to put the case for the sex workers' viewpoint forward, I can't see it happening, or at least I cant see it happening to the degree that the ICI and Ruhama make themselves available openly and publicly to the media. We have grown accustomed to seeing spokespersons for Ruhama on the airwaves, on news broadcasts, on current affairs and investigative programs, as well as in the print media. Now I can't see any escorts going on the 6.01 or 9.00 RTE News or TV3 News, or on Primetime, The Frontline or Tonight with Vincent Browne unless maybe they sit behind a screen or with their backs to the audience in a darkened part of the studio with their faces in shadow and speaking through some sort of a machine to disguise their voices (can't see clients doing it either by the way). So how is the public to judge an openly conducted campaign by people in front of the camera (albeit with hidden agendas) versus a campaign by people lurking in the shadows or wearing face masks (a la 1970s style paramilitaries)?

It's a no brainer. If I were a Ruhama person, I would simply challenge those escorts who want to campaign against a proposed new law, that if they want sex work to be recognised and not driven underground, if they want it to be viewed as something acceptable and normal, they should stand up, be counted and drop the mask.

These blogs are all fine and good and they do at least demonstrate that some escorts are engaged and making an effort to get their experiences and points of view across, but you have to ask yourself, what audience are they reaching and who are they convincing or what influence are they having. These blogs (both for and against) tend to be one-sided affairs. If people agree with the particular thrust of a blog, they leave a comment, otherwise they post a critique of it somewhere like here. Places like boards.ie do facilitate what passes for debate, but most people either hold to preconceived opinions or just oppose positions without putting counter positions forward, and the number of contributors and readers is probably quite small. So none of this can be considered as a substitute for public debate or for having the potential to sway public opinion or influence the 167 legislators who decide the fate of any proposed legislation.

I know nothing about the SWAI, but I believe that the TOBL campaign was a spectacular own goal, as it took the media no time at all to highlight who was behind that organisation. I note that LaBelleThatcher (who has made some of the best contributions from an escort/former escort perspective) is not overly impressed by the SWAI and the fact that it is not escort driven or accurately reflects the concerns or wishes of escorts. However, as escorts are unlikely to expose themselves willingly to the media spotlight and fight their own campaign in public, it may be left to the SWAI and others to conduct the counter campaign from a human rights, civil choice or right to work perspective. Many organisations, including academics have done extensive research on sex work and sex workers from different perspectives including those of the voluntary or essential sex workers; so there is a wealth of information and statistics etc. available and also people qualified to debate these issues from differing backgrounds or disciplines. Of equal importance, is that these people will often have lecturing, debating, public speaking experience and media skills and training and they would be in a position to conduct a proper debate in public.

Whilst sex worker advocacy groups may not always represent the concerns or opinions of each and every sex worker accurately or fully, if you are going to exclude their potential contribution to a proper public debate and rely on one sided blogs instead (no matter how good they may be), then this battle is surely lost.

[Half Man and Half Dildo]

LaBelleThatcher
I would be over the moon if a sex worker's led organisation started up. But it hasn't happened at this point in time. Also a significant amount of publicity needed is still via tv, radio and papers and not just on social media sites.

I think the phrase "Nero fiddled while Rome Burned" is appropriate.

In some of my earlier posts I provided links to places online where the sex industry was being discussed in the hope that some of the escorts from here would get involved, but as far as I could see nothing happened in that regard.

I fear that in a few months time Ruhama will be holding victory celebrations and the community here will be talking about what should have been done before it was too late. I even offered to donate some money via one of the Irish girls I know to help fund a campaign, but never even got a single PM about it.

AS I said before there's no point in always waiting for Ruhama to make the first move - catch the fuckers off-guard with a radio interview with Pat Kenny or something.

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Curvaceous Kate has a great entry in her blog - Where do I stand on being an Escort? - that, and lots more like it, needs to appear in papers, online, radio, etc, soon or it will be too late.