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Thread: Killing of new borns allowed, they have no right to life

  1. #21
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    I think we must all remember that this is a discussion paper, for the moment.

    If I recall correctly the Romans believed that a child was only an animal, and therefore could be killed, until it was able to talk. Once it could talk it became human.

    On the question of who decides who lives and who dies. In the 1930's a European country believed that it was the right thing to do to humainly kill off those that were SEVERELY. This might seem fair enough but the scope of these "mercy" killings was then widened to include not just SEVERELY people but those that were a burden to society. Simpletons, homosexuals, gypsies and Jews fell into this catogory and the killings became less and less humane.

    For those that haven't copped yet I'm talking about Nazi Germany.

    Who has the right to choose? It's a big question. Whats the answer?

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  3. #22
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    Sadly it already happens at the discretion of medical staff. If a child is born with a condition which means it will live for only a short time, hospital staff have been known to feed an infant sugar and water to stop the him crying from hunger, and let death ocur from starvation.
    Barbaric.

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  5. #23
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    Tough subject! It's worth reading the:

    • Full article...& ('offical' Journal of Medical Ethics ) Responses to it
    • A response to 'After-birth abortion: why should the baby live? David J Pohlmann [Full text]
    • Awkward Truths Should Make People Re-evaluate Routine Practice. Tim M Reynolds [Full text]

    It seems evident these people are actually serious* albeit with a view to sparking a philosopical debate



    Having witnessed the response generated Stateside by this paper in last few days, I can only imagine the emails etc these two buckos must be getting!

    * I initially thought that perhaps the authors were acting <as they might see it> as "lambs in wolves' clothing" (not vice-versa)... both academics are now based at Monash University which despite housing the Australian Stem Cell Centre is riddled with Opus Dei members... but that does not seem to be the case!!
    Last edited by Franken996; 06-03-12 at 21:41.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franken996 View Post
    Tough subject! It's worth reading the:

    • Full article...& ('offical' Journal of Medical Ethics ) Responses to it
    • A response to 'After-birth abortion: why should the baby live? David J Pohlmann [Full text]
    • Awkward Truths Should Make People Re-evaluate Routine Practice. Tim M Reynolds [Full text]

    It seems evident these people are actually serious* albeit with a view to sparking a philosopical debate



    Having witnessed the response generated Stateside by this paper in last few days, I can only imagine the emails etc these two buckos must be getting!

    * I initially thought that perhaps the authors were acting <as they might see it> as "lambs in wolves' clothing" (not vice-versa)... both academics are now based at Monash University which despite housing the Australian Stem Cell Centre is riddled with Opus Dei members... but that does not seem to be the case!!

    Wow.. My initial impression is that I thought the journal article was appallingly badly written with each point just one unsubstantiated assertion after another. And the constant references to the new born as "she" and "her", what is that all about??

    I stand by my original assesment before I even read the article: The authors are on ground so shaky as to be basically non-existent.

    On a more personal note, the authors witless ramblings about adoption are so offensive to me that I would administer a beating to them if the opportunity presented itself (said beating would be in the range of causing concussion, jaw fracture and shattered teeth. I trust this is a suitably dry and factual decription of the violence proposed as befitting a response to academia).
    Bada Bing!!!

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozer View Post
    By Stephen Adams in London

    Thursday March 01 2012
    PARENTS should be allowed to have newborn babies killed as it is no different from abortion, medical ethics experts linked to*Oxford University
    *have argued.
    Newborns are not "actual persons" and do not have a "moral right to life", they say. Parents should be able to have a baby killed if it turns out to be disabled, or for any other reason that would allow an abortion, they add in an article in the 'Journal of Medical Ethics'.
    The authors had received death threats following its publication, said the journal's editor, Prof Julian Savulescu, who is the director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics.
    He said that those who had made abusive and threatening responses were "fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society".
    The article, entitled 'After-birth abortion: Why should the baby live?', was written by Dr Alberto Giubilini and Dr Francesca Minerva.
    They argued: "The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a foetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual."
    They explained: "Both a foetus and a newborn certainly are human beings and potential persons, but neither is a 'person' in the sense of 'subject of a moral right to life'.
    "We take 'person' to mean an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her."
    The authors concluded that "what we call 'after-birth abortion' (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled".
    They also argued that parents should be able to have a baby killed if it turned out to be disabled when born.
    They added, as an example, that many cases of*Down Syndrome
    *were not identified by pre-natal testing.
    "To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care," they wrote.
    Justifiable
    They did not argue that some baby killings were more justifiable than others, but that morally they were no different from abortion as already practised.
    Defending the decision to publish the article, Prof Savulescu said that arguments in favour of infanticide were "largely not new" and his journal was not to "promote some one moral view.
    It is to present "well-reasoned argument based on widely accepted premises".
    He said the journal would consider publishing an article arguing that, if there was no moral difference between abortion and killing newborns, then abortion too should be illegal. (© Daily Telegraph, London)
    - Stephen Adams in London



    Discuss
    I only read a bit of it Doozer,shite,this fecker would have went down well with herr Hitler.

  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mer View Post
    killing a baby is murder its way different than abortion, anyway what person in a right frame of mind wud kill a newborn baby? if they dont want the baby put it up for adaption and the baby might have a bright future ahead of it. killing an inocent newborn baby is just cruel how cud you after carrying that around for 9 months? jasus i dont understand some people in this world

    there is people that try so hard in this world to have a baby and it doesnt work for them, life is the greatest gift in the world!!

    and killing a baby i think that person shud be shot in the face to say they are not human!!
    Whats next,kill the old because they are living too long?,right wing fanactics.

  11. #27
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    Destroy All Humans!!!


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