Post Legislation Environment

[milkman]

From the recent relevations , a number of observations :

(a) the issue of trafficking is a real and more prominent problem than a lot of us were aware
(b) E-i was ,at best,indifferent about the possibility of trafficked girls on their site
(c) Many punters were,similarly, apathetic towards the possible plight of many girls
(d) As legislation approaches ,a more balanced,open debate about the entire profession of prostitution and its prominence in society will develop but in the absence of a female-led opposition group,legislation criminalising the purchase of sex is inevitable.
(e) And as a decent person,if this legislation successfully diminishes trafficking in any meaningful way,then i welcome it(as any decent person should).I enjoy visiting escorts but ultimately its a luxury experience and if denying the likes of me such luxuries genuinely helps in the fight against trafficking then sign me up.

Yes i dislike Ruhama's lies to an oblivious public - but they aren't the first organisation nor will be the last to do same.
Yes i despise Ruhama's vile hypocrisy : Protect vulnerable women except those abused by our colleagues :http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...299584327.html
Yes i'm disappointed at the soft ride (ahem) that Ruhama are getting from the media re their facts,figures,motives and hypocrisy.But ultimately if such legislation does help the most vulnerable in any way at the expense of my luxury then no problem.

Post-legislation ? Personally,i've no doubt whatsoever escorting in this country will continue - both independent and trafficked.Re the latter - fuck em - let the traffickers and their clients rot in hell. For the decent consenting adults of the former persuasion,that's all any of us are concerned about.
I bow to the superior knowledge of escorts who have worked in Sweden or similar legislative territories but here's my take on how the escorting world may change.

In the months leading up the change of law,interested punters will contact those escorts known to be independent(usually irish,uk and the longtime established as independent e.g. Libby,AmyAllison,SexyJessica etc.) requesting that their (anonymous) punting phone number will be retained by same escort.The escort then creates her own database of interested clients for each area and when a tour for said area is planned,she merely send a group text to relevant group re upcoming tour of their area .Minimum appointments of one hour .Rate for appointment goes up but escort only sees three appointments per day on a first come , first served basis - this is crucial as discretion applied will determine whether escorting in ireland is viable - if discretion is compromised by escorts taking too many appointments daily ,thereby drawing attention,arrests and criminal charges to clients will ensue,headlines will feature and future clients will walk away from the industry because of the very real and enforced legislation.

If the demand on appointments exceed the three-a-day vacancies,then the escort can simply add more days to her successful tour in the area.

The advantages for the escort : increased rates per appointment, more 'off-duty' time ,and most importantly,the elimination of time wasters as only the interested punters from the escorts database will know of escorts presence in the area via the escorts announcing texts.Any punter that acts the prick can be merely struck off her list.The escort will command a very healthy daily profit from her tours from a dependable,regular list of clients.

From the clients point of view : we'll have to pay higher rates per appointment (to offset the lesser available number of appointment vacancies needed to maintain discretion) but at least our luxurious self-indulgencies will be maintained.I've no doubt clients would be willing to pay that extra €50 to ensure safe punting.

In fairness to the gardai,they won't have much interest in criminalising consenting but discreet adults.We're all aware of their continued presence on this site and that some quite happily indulge in some of the services on offer.A tolerance for independent escorting will exist similar to the pre 1993 illegal homosexual activites in the Georges street area.More concern will rightly be concentrated on the (hopefully) less prevalent traffickers.

Post legislation, any website like e-i promoting the services of escorts will be promoting illegal activities so anybody participating as a client or escort (independent or not) is only looking for trouble when discretion really is the determining factor on the viability of tolerated escorting/punting.Certainly i wouldn't dream of visiting an escort who was loud enough to announce her presence in my area,on a website - never mind trust her with the discretion of maintaining a respectable number of daily appointments.

As i said earlier,i bow to the superior knowledge of those that have experience of the Swedish model but for me,i do think a responsible approach by the decent people of both client/escort population will ensure that everybody's desires/aspirations can be met.

[Franken996]

Milkman,
Nice post, interesting observations & thanks for taking the time to gather your thoughts in a well scripted way.
(It's always easier to be a critic than a contributor- so please take the following in the constructive spirit intended):
Two assumptions that you make, imho probably won't quite pan out that way, viz:

(d) As legislation approaches ,a more balanced,open debate about the entire profession of prostitution and its prominence in society will develop but in the absence of a female-led opposition group,legislation criminalising the purchase of sex is inevitable.

We already see the knee jerk reaction of some pols etc so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for sane discourse.

i bow to the superior knowledge of those that have experience of the Swedish model

The Swedish model has driven the darker elements of the game further underground- the Swedes are merely deluding themselves on this front & have driven the bulk of the 'regular' punters to Denmark/Germany/Baltics thus damaging their local economy.
Regarding that right wing family values clown Senator Ronan Mullen- he's a solicitor by training & wouldn't put it past him to introduce legislation to amend the proposed 'Swedish' style crud so that IRL could end up with an American style prohibition.


I think your proposals re setting up a network that flies under the radar is laudable- similar stuff broadly already happens here in the US although logistically it can be a complex game & keeping the pimps out is just as hard as the regular circuits.

cheers & good luck

[UKHeather]

Gents could spend some time recording the phone numbers of girls they like to see or those they would like to meet in the future and ask them to drop a blank text to them when they will be around. The client, can then give her a call to confirm her tour dates.
If this law is brought into force, many girls will, I suspect, stop advertising and stick to regular clients and those who have already let her know they have her number stored.
If she is a resident escort, no text needed, just ring her when you would like to see her.

[westie]

I would not be too worried,in pratice the gardai would have to obtain a warrant,raid an appartment after hours of surveilence and for what,to catch one escort and one client,hardly a good use of scarce resources.If they dont actually see money change hands proving it would would be difficult.
Any way this is good auld Ireland,after the politicans and the santimonious moral brigade have finished clapping themselves on the back for ridding the Auld Sod of prostitution like St Patrick banished the snakes and the gardai carry out a few token raids with Charlie Bird in tow to make the 9 oclock news it will like most laws in this country be ignored when the latest "moral outrage" grips the nation and the "something must be done" calls light oup Joe Duffys phone.
So I wouldnt worry too much ,this is not Sweden,and it will take more than the inept offices of this state to do what has eluded the rest of the world for thousands of years.

[Morpheus]

From the recent relevations , a number of observations :

(a) the issue of trafficking is a real and more prominent problem than a lot of us were aware
(b) E-i was ,at best,indifferent about the possibility of trafficked girls on their site
(c) Many punters were,similarly, apathetic towards the possible plight of many girls
(d) As legislation approaches ,a more balanced,open debate about the entire profession of prostitution and its prominence in society will develop but in the absence of a female-led opposition group,legislation criminalising the purchase of sex is inevitable.
(e) And as a decent person,if this legislation successfully diminishes trafficking in any meaningful way,then i welcome it(as any decent person should).I enjoy visiting escorts but ultimately its a luxury experience and if denying the likes of me such luxuries genuinely helps in the fight against trafficking then sign me up.

Wow!! That's some post Milkman!! Very well thought out. Cheers.

It certainly paints one possible scenario of what life would be here post legislation.

I need time to digest it. Thanks.

[Morpheus]

I have just re-read your post Milkman. And I say fairplay. I do think this is a realistic scenario. I have actually saved your speel, as I would like to go back and read it someday post apocalypse!

From the recent relevations , a number of observations :

In the months leading up the change of law,interested punters will contact those escorts known to be independent(usually irish,uk and the longtime established as independent e.g. Libby,AmyAllison,SexyJessica etc.) requesting that their (anonymous) punting phone number will be retained by same escort.

The escort will command a very healthy daily profit from her tours from a dependable,regular list of clients.

From the clients point of view : we'll have to pay higher rates per appointment (to offset the lesser available number of appointment vacancies needed to maintain discretion) but at least our luxurious self-indulgencies will be maintained.I've no doubt clients would be willing to pay that extra €50 to ensure safe punting.

I think you're right here Milkman. There will be a few Irish and British escorts left who will command the market.

Unfortunately a lot of the ladies I see or hope to see will leave.

Escorting rates will definitely go up. I do think that an additional 50 Euro is a gross underestimation. I can see the average hourly rate going up to and average of 400- 500 Euro. Very good for the few ladies involved but it will pretty much rule me out from the game. Again there will be a select clientele that can afford such rates - an exclusive sort of club.

All in all it will be the end of my punting days at home - due to price and also lack of the type of ladies that I would like to see.

I will likely go into celibacy and occasionally punt when I get the privilege to go abroad

Post legislation, any website like e-i promoting the services of escorts will be promoting illegal activities so anybody participating as a client or escort (independent or not) is only looking for trouble when discretion really is the determining factor on the viability of tolerated escorting/punting.Certainly i wouldn't dream of visiting an escort who was loud enough to announce her presence in my area,on a website - never mind trust her with the discretion of maintaining a respectable number of daily appointments.

Despite of all the critism levelled at E-I in recent days (and I'm not suggesting it's unwarranted) - I am am very grateful to this site because it has enabled me to meet many wonderful ladies with minimal effort on my part and complete safety.

I fear Milkman is right, and it will be the end of such sites, as they are in their current form. And even if E-I and other sites exist - I won't dare to use them.

[milkman]

You may be dead right about the cost going up much more than €50 Morpheus but if they rose beyond €300 an hour ,such prices would be the necessary cold water to cool down the mickey!
The other possible post-legislation scenario is that escort 'outcalls' would be the norm.The Escort rates will go up - say basic rate of €250 + another €50 for the appropriate outcall charge + the client would have to hire a hotel room for the liason say €75. We're then in the €350 - €375 cost per appointment.Can't speak for anyone else but as a punter i'd happily walk away from the industry as 'i may be stupid,but i'm not a fucking eejit' as i couldn't justify that cost to myself,never mind my bank manager!
Such costs would kill demand as only the genuinely addicted / extremely well off would remain undettered by the price.So,its niot really in anyone's interest for appointment rates to skyrocket to obscene levels.

Re Franken ta for the thumbs up.Completely agree with you about the odious Mullen.We should probably be grateful to the guy though as he embodies the sort of dictatorial,conservative bible thumper who feels that his own religion-based morales should be imposed on us underlings that this country was historically subdued under for decades.
Like that line from the Denzel Washington line uttered by Gary Oldman - "the book(bible)is not a book , its a weapon." IMO,People like Mullen genuinely want this legislation passed principally because they feel paying for sex is sinful.If they were genuinely concerned about minimising the vile practice of trafficking ,then they would be open about all possible solutions towards prostitution incl registration,licencing etc. and would encourage open debate on what is/are the best options to save these women,instead of their 'criminalise the sin' ideaology.

[westie]

This new law is all about seeing to be doing something,it will be so easy to get around that it will be a complete waste of Dail time.Websites that promote escorts will move offshore same as the USA online gambling industry has,it could possibly be as easy as setting up a vps so your ip address would not be in Ireland.Similary bank accounts which accept advertising money

can be outside Ireland.Advertising wording may have to change,I am sure enterprising people are already figuring out ways of bypassing this law possibly using Twitter or Facebook in some way.If someone as cluless about modern media as me can figure this out some smart computer whizz would have a field day.
The senario of escorts only having regular clients phone numbers and visa versa will only work for a short while as escorts and punters have a pretty high turnover rate.Prices rising in the beginning might happen but soon as the dust settles and new lines of communication are in place things will get back to normal.
The pratical bottom line is still the same proving something illegal is going on between two consenting adults in a private residence or hotel room is notoriously difficult and even if they manage it they will only catch one escort and one client at a time.The guards are in a results based business and any guard on the promotion trail knows that this is not good for the cv better a few hours on traffic duty handing out speeding tickets and maybe an odd drunk driver much easier to keep his conviction rate up.
Ater the inital hooray when this new law is passed every one keep their heads low for a while then when the moral brigade find a new bone to pick we can get back to what we do best.I for one dont really see much of a problem this is the oldest game in the world and Dail Eireann aint going to change that.