Ian Paisley

[Big-Paul]

I think Mr P. would die 100 million times over rather than be a part of Irish history. He was a Brit IHO.

You will find even though he was a unionist he classed him self as an Ulster man his words not mine.

[Derry lad]

That's an interesting point; can you elaborate?

Back to the general topic - I am somewhat suspicious of the way both Paisley (and Sinn Fein) were prepared to sacrifice their once-implacable ideals as soon as there was a chance for political power. We saw it down here with the Greens entering government with Fianna Fail, for example. For years, Paisley was the intransigent man of right-wing Protestantism in politics. His racist (because that's what it was) rhetoric fanned the flames of hatred - I would even go so far as to say that the blood of innocent people may be on his hands.

When the people of Northern Ireland started to veer away from the Ulster Unionists and towards the DUP, suddenly Paisley became very interested in reaching an accommodation with his Roman Catholic neighbours for the sake of everybody's children. A shame he spoke up in the opposite vein when agreements like Sunningdale were being negotiated. Therefore, I wonder could we classify Big Ian as a shrew politician, who stoked the fire of his voters when he needed notoriety and publicity, but became like a pussycat when actually holding the reins of power?

You pretty much hit the nail on the head there mousey.
Create the fear, gather the followers, reap the rewards.
The big man was well known for his silent collections (aka NO coins) at rallies, i was told this by a Rangers fan in glasgow who was none too impressed that his pound coin wasnt good enough?!

[Big-Paul]

Sometimes Paul, there are those who actually shape the environment rather than being shaped by it. History will show the Ian Paisley was the former. He shaped a lot of the views that led to extremism before there was extremism on both sides, he was actively encouraging anti Nationalist/Catholic/Irish sentiment before the troubles as they are known began. As others have posted perhaps his greatest failing was his inability to support those he led into extremism. Many in grass roots Unionism who chose the road of violence felt abandoned by him when they found themselves in prison for having followed his lead.

While politically I would be diametrically opposed to him and what he stands for, I do applaud him for his ability to make peace and to move forward as first minister. Despite his man of the cloth image, I know people who were beaten up in front of him and he didn't intervene.

I wish him well as I have no desire to see anyone lose a family member. I hope that as his time comes to an end he can be at peace with himself. That is all any of us can hope for.

For sure in his prime he certainly fanned the flames of sectarianism as did many others in both camps . Like you I would applaud his ability to come to the table and sit with those who would had been fundamentally opposed both politically and religiously to him and try to make a Peaceful way forward for all. I have friends who live in Dr paisleys constituency who would back up the fact that he drew no distinction between his constituents and severed them equally to the best of his ability ,one thing is for certain he left his mark on this country let that be for better or worse.

[mellors]

I was merely expressing an alternative view on the man by way of balance to those offensive, derogatory comments already made. In the first post on this thread that I replied to, the poster suggested they could not articulate how low their opinion was of Paisley.

All I was doing was articulating, that similarly, I could not express how low my opinion is of those people who have expressed views here accusing the man of all sorts, and that while he appears to be seriously ill.

Rather than the man in question enticing hatred could I suggest that before you retire for the evening that you take a good look in the mirror. Your lack of tolerance is shameful.

I have no desire to get involved in Irish politics, my post was to cast a wider net.
Personally i have no trouble looking in the mirror and consider myself a fairly tolerent person, what i object to is any eulogising that seems to arise just because someone is on their death bed, when as has been pointed out by other posters the person in question has been fanning the flames of bigotry and hatred . Can you imagine what it will be like when Thatcher departs this mortal coil (i for one will be having a little dance and street party....whose the intolerant one, Thatcher, Paisley or myself ?)

[Lincoln]

While I have not, and do not, agree with many of his views I wish the old man well. He is first of all a husband, a father, grandfather and there are those near to him who will love him dearly. So best wishes to him and hope he makes a full recovery. Just as I would wish if Martin McGuinness were unwell and who will be loved by those near to him.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid this post demonstrates to me that bigotry is not only always in other people we see it in - it can be much closer than we think.

Well ma'am first and foremost I consider him a religious bigot. That he is married and has children does not give him a free pass to have spewed his dogma/scripture inspired bile for his entire adult life.

He is a thinking human being capable of critical reasoning but instead he chooses cant. I have no specific ill will towards him in terms of his health. However I have only compassion for all the ordinary people (y'know the sort: gay or co-habiting or had an abortion or enjoyed sex and werent ashamed or were atheist or non-judgemental y'know those sorts) that an unthinking prick like that mercilessly castigated his whole life. That is where my sympathy would reside.

[blue8671]

I have never been a fan of the majority of views held by Dr Paisley either regarding politics or religion, we as both nationalists and loyalists share a small island that has been held back by far to long by historical differances. And until both sides learn to respect the opinions of the other side we are always going to have extremists on both side finding support for there ranting.

It is the next generation of politicians that have grown up not having had to live through the troubles that will be in a position to actually resolve the differances, as at present all politicians " in the north" on both sides are to some extent set in the THEM AND US mentality and as such they seem incapable of any real comprimise.

It is unfortunate that at present Dr Paisley is very unwell and at his age im afraid it does not look like a recovery will be very likley, however I do wish him well and im sure his family are suffering greatly at this time.

[Big-Paul]

A very good article by John-Paul McCarthy on the subject

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...s-3016998.html

[TheNads]

I am not religious, so couldn't give a shit what he said about the RC shower but I do remember growing up wondering why this man could be so angry & full of hatred. That was before I fully understood what it was he was saying.
Then as I grew I remember thinking that all he had to say was NO. He never offered alternatives to suggested solutions, just yelled NO as loudly as possible & stirred up the rabble on his side of the fence (there was plenty of rabble on both sides !). It was drummed into me growing up that if I was going to challenge things then I also needed to bring alternatives into play. He just wanted the status quo to remain. The status quo gave people like him power, hatred & animosity was his raison d'etre.
There was a war & as leader of a large percentage of the community (not to mention a supposed religious person) it was encumbent on him to look for solutions, condemn violence from every side & try to calm people. He was quite the opposite.
Yes we should have sympathy for his family & friends but we should not forget that he was one of the protagonists, along with the IRA, SF, Maggie Thatcher et al, who elongated an unnecessary war & people died because of his vitriol.

In the end, when he realised that there was no other way to turn he signed up to the peace process. For that I am grateful.

[Big-Paul]

I am not religious, so couldn't give a shit what he said about the RC shower but I do remember growing up wondering why this man could be so angry & full of hatred. That was before I fully understood what it was he was saying.
Then as I grew I remember thinking that all he had to say was NO. He never offered alternatives to suggested solutions, just yelled NO as loudly as possible & stirred up the rabble on his side of the fence (there was plenty of rabble on both sides !). It was drummed into me growing up that if I was going to challenge things then I also needed to bring alternatives into play. He just wanted the status quo to remain. The status quo gave people like him power, hatred & animosity was his raison d'etre.
There was a war & as leader of a large percentage of the community (not to mention a supposed religious person) it was encumbent on him to look for solutions, condemn violence from every side & try to calm people. He was quite the opposite.
Yes we should have sympathy for his family & friends but we should not forget that he was one of the protagonists, along with the IRA, SF, Maggie Thatcher et al, who elongated an unnecessary war & people died because of his vitriol.

In the end, when he realised that there was no other way to turn he signed up to the peace process. For that I am grateful.

Sadly there was intransience and bigotry on both sides and both sides had their fair shake of nay Sayers who wanted the status quo to remain for their own ends. Its the nature of politics to bring strong minded people to the fore and such people who hold strong beliefs and views don’t lend themselves to change easily .Indeed the Paisley's and Tatchers and the rest dragged a bad situation from bad to worse and as always it was the innocent that paid sometimes with their lives.

[Julius Caesar]

Neverrrr neverrrr neverrrr neverrrrr .......!!!!!!