Eurozone Fucked

[damron]

Ireland was the first country after WW11 to come to Germany's aid. Do the Krauts care about us now???????????????????/

[SR71]

I think, it will show how this government will be good at negotiations regarding the harmonization of the corporate tax. We just have to wait and see after this weekend's summit, what Enda Kenny will have to say about it, but I reckon most will vote NO.

[experiencedguy]

Well as there is no mechanism for any country to decouple itself from the euro it would basically mean the collapse of the
EU as we know it if the euro fails. The problem here is that just leaving the euro solves nothing for us, we still have our debts
and still have our deficit. In actual fact our debts would be much larger as whatever currency we would replace euro with would
be drastically devalued so while our exports would be worth much more our imports would be really expensive. Energy costs would soar, seeing as we dont manufacture any electrical goods etc things like cars and white goods would reach exorbitant rates. Inflation would be huge savings would be decimated, things like foreign holidays etc would be unaffordable. Another
factor is a the multinationals that favoured us as a base in Europe would leave, there would be no incentive to stay here,all
our graduates would leave as they wouldnt work for peanuts. All foreign contracts are in euro and apparently the legal problems
of changing the contracts would be immense as our currency would be very violatile and would fluctuate greatly against other
european currencies. The other thing is whatever currency we would use ultimately because of our size and proximity would
end up being greatly influenced by sterling so back to the 800 years of opression again.Finally guys the choice of escort would
soon dry up as this would have a much greater effect than any Turn off the Red Light campaign, the girls from eastern europe
or south America arent going to travel here to work for a currency that would probably comparable in value to their own, they
would find richer pickings. People will think they are very badly off at the moment but most here would be too young to
remember where Ireland was relative to the wealthier european countries pre 73 when we joined EU.

Thank you. A nice summing up is what was needed. IMO, no country had any business going into a united currency without some form of federal taxation system. When we gave up the punt (the monetary one... :P ) we looked to the economic weight of Europe to help us in our financial dealings. Now, we have to live with the consequences.

I personally have no problem with a European wide taxation system, if the benefits of such a system are europe wide. The chances of such a thing happening within the next 20 years (at least) are slim. Surrendering economic sovereignty has been a topic of heated debate, and the choices are stark.

Do we stay in the Euro to the bitter end and inevitably give up our sovereignty, or do we leave and risk almost certain financial ruin?

I don't think there's a third option.

[herodotus]

On the one hand Irish politicians are useless and this is a banana republic. But, on the other hand, I would not like to have knobs like Sarcozy or Ollie Rehn or Von Rompoy calling the shots. So it is a definite no for me to any future referendum. I also voted no to the last one by the way.

If a referendum is called on a new treaty and a result of the treaty is that Merkozy get to call a lot more shots in Europe than they already do, will you vote yes or no ?

Personally at this stage I thing Ireland would do well to decouple itself from the Euro so I'd almost definately vote no.

[Big-Paul]

Thank you. A nice summing up is what was needed. IMO, no country had any business going into a united currency without some form of federal taxation system. When we gave up the punt (the monetary one... :P ) we looked to the economic weight of Europe to help us in our financial dealings. Now, we have to live with the consequences.

I personally have no problem with a European wide taxation system, if the benefits of such a system are europe wide. The chances of such a thing happening within the next 20 years (at least) are slim. Surrendering economic sovereignty has been a topic of heated debate, and the choices are stark.

Do we stay in the Euro to the bitter end and inevitably give up our sovereignty, or do we leave and risk almost certain financial ruin?

I don't think there's a third option.

European wide taxation system ?? are you sure our asses would be well and truly nailed to the wall then, if that tax system was even loosely based on the German taxation system we would wind up paying a fair bit more tax. The French and Germans are trying to take control of Europe they have financial control and its only a matter of time before they have political control as well.
So that will be a no vote from me.

[gaaman]

Have to agree with JC we are fucked anyway

[experiencedguy]

European wide taxation system ?? are you sure our asses would be well and truly nailed to the wall then, if that tax system was even loosely based on the German taxation system we would wind up paying a fair bit more tax. The French and Germans are trying to take control of Europe they have financial control and its only a matter of time before they have political control as well.
So that will be a no vote from me.

Yep. I would have no problem with this if the resulting federal income was distributed fairly to those that needed it. That's what I meant by saying that the benefits should be europe wide.

As for Germany and France controlling our economy, well, they can't do any worse than we did. What good is economic sovereignty if we're getting shafted by our own, when the people who want to control our economy are in better financial straights? Pride comes before a fall.

[carlos marvado]

Ireland was the first country after WW11 to come to Germany's aid. Do the Krauts care about us now???????????????????/

I imagine without them and the French, the budget correction this year would have had to have been €20 billion instead of €3.8 billion or whatever. Then where would those on social payments, the pensioners, the unemployed, those on disability benefits, the health system and the public sector be? We would move from 1st world to 3rd world overnight, and as Brother Ber rightly said, you could kiss good bye to all the escorts that come to our shores. But then again, thousands of improverished Irish citizens would probably be forced to emigrate or turn to prostitution.

A lot here seem to be too young to remember this place pre 1973 EEC entry. If you insist on biting the hand that feeds you, don't be too surprised if the hand is withdrawn. Fiscal and political independence sounds great in principle, but you wont hear those emigrating complaining about their loss............they're more concerned with finding somewhere else where they can find employment, a decent wage and standard of living. Flags, anthems, emblems and gombeen politicians d'ont create jobs, wealth... foreign companies that set up here because of our membership of the EU and Eurozone, our infrastructure, unit costs and workforce skills do however create employment and wealth. So if anyone is planing on wraping themselves in the green flag and snubing the EU, make sure to get your hands on a fig leaf......your going to need it, because the sovereign in naked.

[Julius Caesar]

Ireland was the first country after WW11 to come to Germany's aid. Do the Krauts care about us now???????????????????/

Ya vol.... vee ave ways of making you broke yaa....

[Big-Paul]

Yep. I would have no problem with this if the resulting federal income was distributed fairly to those that needed it. That's what I meant by saying that the benefits should be europe wide.

As for Germany and France controlling our economy, well, they can't do any worse than we did. What good is economic sovereignty if we're getting shafted by our own, when the people who want to control our economy are in better financial straights? Pride comes before a fall.

Have you ever lived in and paid tax in Germany, I have and they take a fair chunk more out of your monthly wage that being said their health service is a country mile ahead of ours, but its not free as many people believe you still have to pay for certain elements of it and I believe the cost has increased over the last few years its been quite a while since I lived there. If I am honest I would rather be shafted by our own than by the powers of a foreign state after all if we surrender our sovereignty both economic and political what was the point of 1916.