Sinn Fein- Support in The Republic of Ireland

[doodlebug]

People have been coming through the free education system here since before the troubles ended. I know several people who came through the free education system here in the early 80's, then went north to find college places. For their work placement, they couldn't get jobs in primarily Unionist factories. They asked what school you went to, and if there was a 'St.' in the name you were black flagged, so in that respect, I am correct. I was talking about Sinn Féin's targeting of people on the lower rungs of the economic ladder, using 1970's Northen Ireland as an example as to how it worked and was relevant, and why it isn't relevant in the Republic today. My argument regarding education is relevant today, here, now, but not for the 1970s. I never said the education argument applied to the 1970s.

A low level of education in this day and age in the younger voter cannot be blamed on society. There is a social pressure, absolutely, but at what point does a person stop blaming society and take a measure of blame on themselves?

Sinn Féin are in power in the North. I repeat. Northern Ireland is a separate state. To say that what works there also works here is idiotic. We are a different state. I can accept Sinn Féin having a foothold here, and in fact, they do represent a portion of the electorate. What I do have a problem with is the opportunism, which you haven't commented on. As for Martin McGuinness making the point that he has moved on, I will believe it when I see it, especially as this comes from a man who will not answer direct questions about his past.

I don't have a problem with any party trying to increase their vote as long as they look after their people and don't have a hidden agenda. Sinn Féin breaks both of these tenets.

I see your point about the education system but for free education to have any sort of meaningful effect it will take longer. And your point about what school did you go to is not confined to jobs in the North, I am aware of many people who still can't get work here because they are from the north and that is something that isn't talked about these days..."coming down here taking our jobs"....my only answer to that is check the passports you will find they are all Irish citizens. As to the Shinners having power in the North and it being a seperate state, that is exactly my point....in fairness to Sinn Fein they have always said they don't want it to be a seperate state and the vast majority of their voters would share that view.

In relation to Martin McGuinness, he is not the only one not answering questions about his past, not even among the seven candidates. At some point we do have to move on and stop looking back. I happen to think his record in bringing the IRA to ceasefire speaks louder than his actions in the early seventies, and remember he was much longer trying to bring peace than he was making war....also I think none of us on this site could stand questions about our present or past!!!!

The beauty of this life is that people change, it is the failure to accept that which leads to intraction and division.

[experiencedguy]

We all have our own tales to tell & that's what makes life interesting.
The Shinners I know live very normal existences, surviving on far less money than I do & not a big car or house in sight. The real question is whether you are prepared to give them the benefit of time & space to become a real, bona fide political organisation or dismiss them as terrorists / criminals who are incapable of change ? To dismiss them I contend will only drive them underground again & threaten the peace process.
Of course there's remnants of their past, especially in working class 6 count areas but only time will make the dinosaurs die out.

It's not that simple either.

I don't think Martin McGuinness is a member of the IRA. I believe he was, but has moved on. I believe Sinn Féin have done some good work in Northern Ireland regarding balancing the political scales, and are getting more acceptable as time goes on.

I'm not as polarised in my opinion as some people. However, I do see the tactics they employ, and I do not agree with them.

I see people giving out about David Norris's clemency letters, Gay Mitchell's links with the Penguin, all of which are far less serious than the concerns I have over Martin McGuinness. I believe Sinn Féin will become acceptable, but only if they get rid of all of their old guard. Then I would happily vote for them.

Instead, what I see are a bunch of men in suits getting older and grasping onto as much power as they can as they sacrifice their old ideologies and appeal to old fears.

We don't need Sinn Féin in the Republic. We need people who are more proactive and realistic.

[TheNads]

It's not that simple either.

I don't think Martin McGuinness is a member of the IRA. I believe he was, but has moved on. I believe Sinn Féin have done some good work in Northern Ireland regarding balancing the political scales, and are getting more acceptable as time goes on.

I'm not as polarised in my opinion as some people. However, I do see the tactics they employ, and I do not agree with them.

I see people giving out about David Norris's clemency letters, Gay Mitchell's links with the Penguin, all of which are far less serious than the concerns I have over Martin McGuinness. I believe Sinn Féin will become acceptable, but only if they get rid of all of their old guard. Then I would happily vote for them.

Instead, what I see are a bunch of men in suits getting older and grasping onto as much power as they can as they sacrifice their old ideologies and appeal to old fears.

We don't need Sinn Féin in the Republic. We need people who are more proactive and realistic.

Mary Lou McDonald will be president very soon. She has no link with the war, the north or any of the baggage.
Do you not think they are aware of the stigmas & are not adressing them ? There is a succession plan & it can only happen slowly in order to keep the followers on board in the north, while trying to present a more acceptable face in the south.

[experiencedguy]

I see your point about the education system but for free education to have any sort of meaningful effect it will take longer. And your point about what school did you go to is not confined to jobs in the North, I am aware of many people who still can't get work here because they are from the north and that is something that isn't talked about these days..."coming down here taking our jobs"....my only answer to that is check the passports you will find they are all Irish citizens. As to the Shinners having power in the North and it being a seperate state, that is exactly my point....in fairness to Sinn Fein they have always said they don't want it to be a seperate state and the vast majority of their voters would share that view.

In relation to Martin McGuinness, he is not the only one not answering questions about his past, not even among the seven candidates. At some point we do have to move on and stop looking back. I happen to think his record in bringing the IRA to ceasefire speaks louder than his actions in the early seventies, and remember he was much longer trying to bring peace than he was making war....also I think none of us on this site could stand questions about our present or past!!!!

The beauty of this life is that people change, it is the failure to accept that which leads to intraction and division.

I didn't know the problem of Northern Irish workers getting jobs here was widespread.

As for the questions I have about other candidates, Martin McGuinness has so far failed to answer any of the most serious.

[experiencedguy]

Mary Lou McDonald will be president very soon. She has no link with the war, the north or any of the baggage.
Do you not think they are aware of the stigmas & are not adressing them ? There is a succession plan & it can only happen slowly in order to keep the followers on board in the north, while trying to present a more acceptable face in the south.

I think they are aware of them, but their hunger for power down south is clouding their judgement. It is too soon to have somebody who will not clarify their past in power in the Republic. Would anybody be happy having a priest who was accused of sex crimes in their parish, especially if they refused to answer direct questions regarding it?

[UncleBob]

Mary Lou McDonald will be president very soon. She has no link with the war, the north or any of the baggage.

Dear God, no. Nothing to do with PSF, before you ask - I wouldn't have voted for her even if she was still FF (which many people have forgotten).

[TheNads]

I think they are aware of them, but their hunger for power down south is clouding their judgement. It is too soon to have somebody who will not clarify their past in power in the Republic. Would anybody be happy having a priest who was accused of sex crimes in their parish, especially if they refused to answer direct questions regarding it?

I won't be voting for him either but I think it a very clever policy to run him & get this debate out there, clear the air somewhat in the south. I too think it too soon to have him or anyone from SF in the park, they don't even expect him to win & some of them don't want it, preferring to have him as deputy 1st minister in Belfast.

[experiencedguy]

....also I think none of us on this site could stand questions about our present or past!!!!

The beauty of this life is that people change, it is the failure to accept that which leads to intraction and division.

Yes, but how many of us have been accused of murder? You can't just brush the allegations under the 'we're all not innocent' rug.

[doodlebug]

I didn't know the problem of Northern Irish workers getting jobs here was widespread.

As for the questions I have about other candidates, Martin McGuinness has so far failed to answer any of the most serious.

Believe me it is, and lets not forget the Mary McAleese "Tribal Timebomb" comment, this thread is not a million miles away from that now is it.

I do respect your position and I am grateful of the mature debate that is going on here, it is very stimulating possibly even more so than some of the pictorial threads that are known to pop up now and again.

[experiencedguy]

Believe me it is, and lets not forget the Mary McAleese "Tribal Timebomb" comment, this thread is not a million miles away from that now is it.

I do respect your position and I am grateful of the mature debate that is going on here, it is very stimulating possibly even more so than some of the pictorial threads that are known to pop up now and again.

LOL!!!!!!! We can definitely agree on that!

There's nothing like a good debate to stir the grey matter and the heart rate. It's interesting to note that the areas that dredge up such emphatic feelings are the areas where there is no scientific proof, namely, religion, politics and music. Just a thought.