Barmen not guilty

[John Shaft]

i think he was drinking alone and got chatting to a bunch of lads in the bar. thats when the 'bet' happened

No, he was drinking with work colleagues. They were all British engineers working on a project in the locality.

[City Gent]

sorry citygent...i dont seem to have the same skill in quoting other posts as you!!

Maybe not mate but your quotes make a lot of sense, and your understanding of the situation is to be commended.


CG

[John Shaft]

That has to be the best fact-less load of bollix I have ever read on this forum.


CG

There is one undeniable fact in there and that is, outside of the drink driving legislation, there is no clear legal definition of when a person is drunk. There will never be a conviction under the law that these men were charged under because it can never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court that someone was too drunk to be served more drink.

[bhoywonder]

No, he was drinking with work colleagues. They were all British engineers working on a project in the locality.

i stand corrected.

wow...can't believe they just abandoned him!!! and they just left him on the floor ffs!!!

[bhoywonder]

There is one undeniable fact in there and that is, outside of the drink driving legislation, there is no clear legal definition of when a person is drunk. There will never be a conviction under the law that these men were charged under because it can never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court that someone was too drunk to be served more drink.

in this case he had nine pints, incl 2 with shots of vodka in them, before the cocktail was produced. but apparently even after it was decided that he would get the lethal drink he still made a decision to drink it. thats what the case hinged on. if you killed someone while drunk you couldn't use it as an excuse and in this case it was ruled it was no different

[akasomeoneelse]

i think personal responsibility is a big issue here. he might have had a few drinks before hand but im sure he still knew what he was doing. and this was a bet too. i betcha he had done this many times before. very unlikey that it was his first time doing it.

+1 the law up North doesn't allow this but bars are happy enough to give you as many shots as you want and a pint glass, and this is perfecly legal. It isn't exactly uncommon.

[Morpheus]

The bar manager and barman accused of manslaughter of an English man in 2008
Were found not guilty today,the man was believed to have drank a cocktail of between 8-10 spirits in one go,later dying of alcohol poisoning. Mr.dalton(barman) served the drink and the order was cleared by bar manager(mr.Wright)...
My question-do you guys think they should have been charged or not?
Wile understanding it is outrages to serve someone that many drinks at once,and it was new laws and legislations that but them in the firing line,should they be responsible for what an adult decides to drink etc...

The licensing laws in the UK changed a few years back, putting some responsibility in the hands of the barman & the licencee, both of whom could be fined or face jail if they knowily served a drunk more alcholol resulting in death, knowily allowing a drunk person to drive from the premises or serve a lethal amount of alcholol to a person.

However, I do think that they is also a degree of personal responsibility that should be taken into account. The guy went out to get drunk, he would've known he was drunk, his mates would've known he was drunk, his mates were probably all in on it aswell, as the saying goes 'they've all got blood on all their hands'. A tragic story that will hopefully serve as a lesson to some, but I doubt it, it's not the first such death & I'm sorry to say I doubt it will be the last, we, as a society have encouraged a 'drink culture' & it will continue.

Sandy x

I appreciate there will be varied opinion on this topic.

I fear that there is complete loss of personal responsibility in our society today. Everything is always someone else's fault.

I do feel that the man who consumed all that alcohol is most responsible. He of course has paid most dearly. But had he not died - and just ended up in some A/E department and subsequently recovered fully - he would not have been charged with any offence.

However, I do agree that bar staff need to have some degree of responsibility. This raises difficulty in the area of judgement. How does a barman (they're not all 'specially trained') decide when enough is enough? It may be bloody obvious in certain cases - but it may also lead to a complete nanny state - where one may not be able to get served if one appears slightly tipsy! (This is unlikely to occur given that bars do make their money on drink, but the law or at least fear of the law could drive us in this direction). So I think the barman were careless and negligent and should have some penalty imposed on them - but should not have been charged with man slaughter.

On the otherhand - there has been no responsiblility demanded from this man's work colleagues/ friends. They were there - watching him guzzling down all that drink! There is no mention of them trying to stop him. Who knows, they may even have egged him on? If the barmen were charged with man slaughter, the man's friends should have faced similar charges.

As mentioned above, I know people will have different views on this - hence the interest in this thread and in the case in general. This is just my two pence worth.

[City Gent]

There is one undeniable fact in there and that is, outside of the drink driving legislation, there is no clear legal definition of when a person is drunk. There will never be a conviction under the law that these men were charged under because it can never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court that someone was too drunk to be served more drink.

Trust me there will be a conviction here in time and you can bet before too long ALL bar staff will have to be trained with regard to the new legalisation.


CG

[Experienced Punter esq]

I was convinced that the barmen would be found guilty which would have set a precedent for more responsible behavior amongst bar workers this irresponsible approach by barmen goes on all the time & someone else will die in the very same way until some bar worker/owner is rightly convicted

[bhoywonder]

im sure the vintners will tell us that they are well able to enforce there own code of conduct and that there is no need to legislate for these kind of things