This has just decended into a trade off of insults so for that reason I'm closing thread .: doc
This has just decended into a trade off of insults so for that reason I'm closing thread .: doc
Never mistake kindness for weakness .: doc
I think you'll find the majority of people do give a damn about the environment, but if for the greater good of a country a but if nature has to be harmed well then so be it. This thread has jumped topic so much since it opened as yourself and NGAN desperatly try to clutch at straws to win a argument that you were well and truly beaten at. Pretty much all you have spouted is half truths and bias. If you opened your eyes and took in the bug picture instead of trying to vilify certain people you'd stand a much better chance of people listening to you and accepting what you have to say
Big-Paul (06-04-11)
what i find worrying about the audio tape is
the subjects flurry to gain an upper hand on the arrested
person. their accent may be untypical of the area in which they were arrested.
the first voice states "we'll get immigration fuckin' on her."
it is allegedly the sergeant that first mentions rape.
If anything, that comment shows a certain degree of bias against foreigners and maybe immigrants from those members of the Gardai. For all they know, she could have been born here and spent many years living in North America and acquired her accent that way. If this was the UK and that woman was black or asian, there would be absolute ructions at the highest level over those comments.
Definitely one of the best debates on E-I........I'm glad I reopened this thread.
Just a few points from my own perspective.
I'm all for peaceful and lawful protest and demonstration......this includes chaining oneself to railings or whatever (once there is no trespass) as this form of protest was ligitimised in most peoples' minds by the suffragetes in the early years of the 20th century.
I believe the natural environment should be protected as a national resource in as much as this is compatible with economic development. As with most things in life, compromise should be possible and there is usually a range of different methods for skining a cat (I'm not suggesting that anyone should go out and skin a cat).
The views of the local population should be taken into account. Although everybody in Ireland and industry will benefit from the natural gas, the people on the ground in Rossmore will have to live with any possible negative consequences. After all, governments and civic planners have been known to cock-up in the past..........who in their right mind would ever have thought of building a nuclear power plant on a geological fault line.........and they've probably got better a administration and civic planners than we have......frightening! Remember all those housing estates built on flood plains during the celtic tiger years?
I'm sure the people who are lambasting nicegirls and Brock would be singing a different tune if a government were to announce the construction of an incinerator or nuclear power plant in their locality. Remember Wood Quay in the late 1970s and early 1980s?........the Dublin civic authorities dug up and destroyed the most ancient aspect of the city's architectural heritage and constructed a 1940s style air raid shelter/flak tower in it's place.
Bar the terrible joke you can see that the Garda are actually frustrated by their jobs and what they are being asked to do.
Taken from the Irish Times HERE
Garda A: “Who is them two lassies, do you know the two of them?
Garda B: “I don’t know the second one, the first one is (name) with blonde hair.”
Unidentified garda: “She was up on the tractor earlier on.”
Garda A: “It’d do no harm to get the second one’s name again?
Garda B: “She’s some Yank. I don’t know who the f**k she is.”
Unidentified garda : “ Is she a Yank?
Garda B: “It sounds like it, it sounds like it, the accent anyway
Unidentified garda: “Sounds like a Yank or Canadian.”
Garda B: “Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration f**king on her.”
Garda A: “She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrested.”
Garda B : “.......and deported”
Garda A: “And raped.”
Garda B: “I wouldn’t go that far yet….. She was living down at that crusty camp, f**k sake, you never know what you might get.”
(Laughter)
Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”
(Laughter)
Unidentified garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”
(Laughter)
Garda A : “Or I’ll definitely rape you.”
Unidentified garda: “Will you be me friend on Facebook?”
(Conversation continues about Facebook in Garda station)
Excerpt from video camera recording in which gardaí discuss safety and techniques for arrest at protests.
Garda A on phone to a colleague: “I know we don’t want to be arresting them but by the same token, we were left with no option. We have an issue there as well with the lads in the protest removal team there, of actual climbing the tractors. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to get safety ropes and ladders and we’re going to leave them in the van in case we have to go up on the cab of the tractor again. So we’re looking after that now at the moment.”
Garda A: ends call.
Garda B: “You see (muffled) at least you’re a sergeant, like.”
Garda A: “ (unclear) like some of auld timers who were here in the area in the first and second campaign. I’ll tell you one thing, the decisions that were made (muffled) policing at that time.”
Garda B: I’ll still go back to what says there . . . If someone gets hurt we’re going to be on our own in the blocks.”
Garda A: “. . . I don’t think we’re going to be on our own. If we have exercised due diligence and we have used common sense and used whatever was available to us to remove them. At the end of the day, we have a certain duty of care to them. We ask them to get down, if they don’t get down, we tell them we are taking them down forcefully. We take them down forcefully.
“We use whatever means at our disposal, which includes ladders and ropes or whatever to get them down safely. If one of them slips, so f**kin. What can we do?”
Garda B: “Ladders and ropes. All I’m saying is, the point is (Garda B then simulates court exchange)
‘Garda, are you a member of the protest removal team?’
’I am.’
’Have you received training with working at heights?’
’Yes, I have.’
. . .’How did you train to bring someone down?’
’In a harness with ropes.’”
“We didn’t have any of them options today there . . . That’s all I’m saying. And (named garda) is dead right; if we’re in the box:
’Have you received training on how to take a protester down from heights?’
’Yes’.”
“And if we did it with ropes and harnesses . . . then why did you let my client fall? Did you not go get your ropes and harness to take her down. That’s all.”
Garda A: “. . .To get them down safely we’d have to erect a scaffold tower beside them and abseil them down. And and, the, the, taking the common-sense approach, and a common-sense view, it would be impractical to erect a scaffolding tower to get them down off it. And we use whatever safe means at our disposal, as we considered safe (unclear) protest removal team to take them down, ie, ropes and ladders.”
Unidentified garda: “What was the obstruction?”
Garda B: “There was no obstruction . . .”
Garda A: “They were obstructing the road.”
Garda B: “There was no obstruction . . . The tractors (unclear) all other vehicles were able to get past.”
Garda A: “They were obstructing the road. Excuse me. If a car stops there, in the middle of that f***ing road, and it’s stopped there, it’s obstructing the road. It doesn’t have to be blocking it. If it’s parked there it’s obstructing it.”
Unidentified garda: “Well if nothing else they were obstructing the vehicle.”
Garda B: “That’s the only vehicle obstructed.”
Unidentified garda: “. . . free passage.”
Garda A: “The vehicle was obstructing the road. Just because other vehicles could pass didn’t mean the road wasn’t being obstructed.”
Garda A seems to get out of the car . . .
Garda B: “We all said this, it was a safety issue.”
Unidentified garda: “It was the best option . It was the best option at that time, there’s no doubt about it.”
Garda B: “We all said it because of a safety issue. There was three up, there was a wind blowing. And like did you f***ing feel safe, 100 per cent safe going up there taking down two people.”
Unidentified garda: “No”.
Garda B: “...I don’t know what you thought?”
Unidentified garda : “All I know is that if something happens, who’s going to stand f***ing behind me.”
Garda B: “And do you honestly think that is going to turn around and say “oh look it”. We got trained a certain way.
’Garda did you f***ing, take a protester down the way you were trained’.
’No I didn’t.’
’Well then Guard.’
“And the job will say were you f***ing trained a certain way. The job will f***ing ditch you.”
carlos marvado (06-04-11), Lincoln (06-04-11)
Last thing I'm going to say on the environment, as it's off topic and I can't be bothered getting in a stupid argument with someone who is obviously doing their best to troll the fuck out of this thread. If the majority of people didn't care about the environment, this city (Dublin) and it's surrounding beauty spots would be a lot worse. IMO you are full of shit and as a way to save face in a simple difference of opinions you have kept trying to go off on tangents on this thread as you couldn't beat a 10 year old in a battle of wits.
You have not only fabricated the truth in this thread but now you are saying moronic statements as the one I highlighted above, when has any one denied that?
Finally back on topic. I am not trying to defend the Gardai, if it was anyone else that made that joke I would of said the exact same thing, that it was WRONG and in AWFULLY POOR TASTE. If you bothered to read the rest of the transcript from the car, you can see that they are just like any normal workers talking about an ungrateful job and being told to do things that not only do they not want to but which could also get them in bother.
As for chasing the bankers that can only be done when the Govt tells them to do it. Unless there has been a law broken (if there has can you please post a link and not just spout off) the Garda can't act.
My attitude ain't volatile, I am calmly making sense and posting on topic which is more that can said for you.
Now if you don't mind when you reply to this, please answer some of the questions I have asked you in this an previous posts and don't bother ranting unless you have real proof.
Yo Brock I actually waded through your demented non-sequitur nonsense for the last 11 pages.
Since the point of the thread was concerned with the so-called misconduct of the arresting Gardai and not about how everyone else in Ireland dosent care about the environment except Brock lets just confirm a basic point here:
If it is ok in this day and age to take and broadcast conversation that was never intended for the edification of anyone but the individuals concerned then WE ARE ALL PROPER FUCKED. To entertain this nonsense any further is to actually contemplate complete censure and censoring of free expression.
In my honest opinion the owner of the phone should apologise to the Gardai concerned for such a spiteful and short-sighted act. If we can't enjoy privacy anymore folks we are going to be creating a horrible society for ourselves. To entertain the notion that this is an acceptable act is to expose the thin end of a very nasty wedge.
Bada Bing!!!
monster_monster (06-04-11), tuam sham (07-04-11)
I did not bother my hole to read the eleven pages as i have listened to radio talk this morn and read the irish independent the only paper worth reading ..
I was wondering if I made a joke about killing cops how funny would that be .... very fucking sick funny if you ask me
Last edited by Liberty Love; 06-04-11 at 18:02.
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nicegirlsarenice (06-04-11)