Indies Vs Pimped...

[JAMESCORK]

I will bow to your wider knowledge of affairs of the agency/pimping world, you being a PIMP yourself

I am aware some Uk ladies are part of agencies over there, but advertise as Independents here.I recall a couple of them arguing the toss on this a while back. Tbh, I have found those escorts to be reliable on the few occasions that I have made appointments.
I would consider them to probably be a 5th dimension in your thesis.
Btw, where do you get your stat about the number supposedly pimped?

A little birdie... who talks to other little birdies... who see other little birdies on the same flights home... and those birdies tell em of other little birdies that work this way or that ... so this birdie says to herself ... "well i know x little birdies and of those x little birdies... x/2 are type 3... so its a probable big assumption. So this got me curious and I met another little birdie... one I know and trust and love so much *cough*... and I asked her ... How many of all these little birdies do you think are type 3... and do ya know what this little birdie said... about half of um....

[Quarterpoundher]

A little birdie... who talks to other little birdies... who see other little birdies on the same flights home... and those birdies tell em of other little birdies that work this way or that ... so this birdie says to herself ... "well i know x little birdies and of those x little birdies... x/2 are type 3... so its a probable big assumption. So this got me curious and I met another little birdie... one I know and trust and love so much *cough*... and I asked her ... How many of all these little birdies do you think are type 3... and do ya know what this little birdie said... about half of um....

You know James a lot of these little birdies can sometimes be big f**koff Hawks in disguise, keep that in mind.

[Amy Alison]

I hear ya buddy, but I was talking to a type 3 (jaysus, isnt terrible to call them by numbers ..,lol), and she stated that she prefered to work this way as she has no rent to pay and everything is laid on for her. So long as the lass is happy with the percentage fee, tis her perogative really i suppose.

The lady had no rent to pay ??
The pimp was paying the rent out of the goodness of his heart ?

And the 50% he took from the girl earnings + the other 50% of the other girl working there went straight away to charity, isn't it ?

[carlos marvado]

My understanding would be somewhat different. Firstly, I doubt that controlled escorts (pimped or trafficked) make up the majority of escorts advertised here as of those that I have gotten to know all were completely independent and at liberty to work in whatever way and wherever they wished. I came across some who had worked in agencies prior to going independent, but again, apart from having to hand over a percentage, they could chose to stay or leave the agency. I only ever encountered one escort who had initially been trafficked here.

As to the different categories, I think we are all pretty much agreed on what constitues an independent escort.

She has pretty much total control over her own business: When and where to work, services, rates, and she can organise her own accommodation (hotel/apartment), transport, advertising, security if she wishes, telephonist if she wishes, and whatever money she makes is hers. Independents who decide to share to keep overheads down or to provide duo services are still independents.

Agency escorts agree to work for an agency and will generally do this because they need or want the organisational aspect to be taken care of by somebody else, very often because they would'nt have sufficient English to strike out as an independent or because they want someone else to deal with the hassle. As with independents, these agency workers still have the element of choice, but there may be pressure exerted on them by the agency to take as many clients as possible. Unlike what Qph has stated, the information that I was told years ago was that the split in Ireland was 50/50 and the escort also has been pay a daily charge for the use of the apartment where she worked and that these apartments where were the escorts worked but did not life. So I don't believe that agency escorts have lower overheads.

I would put pimped and trafficked escorts pretty much in the one category. The trafficked category is obvious, the woman is brought to Ireland under false pretences and then forced to work as an escort against her will through the use of threats, intimidation and physical and/or sexual violence. She is kept a virtual prisoner and sees nothing of the money and is moved forcibly from place to place without any choice.

The pimped escort is forced to do this work by her pimp. Again maybe violence or the threat of violence will be a factor, but probably the escort will also be subjected to psychological or mind control. The pimp will want her to work as much as possible and will control the purse strings, just giving the escort what she needs to live. Freedom of movement will be greater than with the trafficked escort but less than the independent or agency escort and will be subject to the say so of the pimp. The pimp could be anybody; even a member of her own family.

Therefore, unless you stick to 100% independent escorts, you are virtually guaranteed that in addition to paying the escort, you will also be lining the pockets of agency bosses, pimps or traffickers.

[ksteve]

One thing I feel strongly about that has been missed I feel is that the respect and integrity of the client is more likely to be compromised where the escort is pimped. Where the pimped escort does not handle all or any of her communications with the client , there is every danger that the client will find himself in fact unknowingly communicating with somone other than his chosen escort. This could be by way of telephone in the first instance but more alarmingly also be by way of texting,posting and private messaging thereafter . For me that scenario, without the knowledge or consent of the client is very disconcerting , disrespectful and perhaps dangerous to the security of the client. The same risks do not apply IMO when one is dealing with a true indie.

[Bruno69]

One thing I feel strongly about that has been missed I feel is that the respect and integrity of the client is more likely to be compromised where the escort is pimped. Where the pimped escort does not handle all or any of her communications with the client , there is every danger that the client will find himself in fact unknowingly communicating with somone other than his chosen escort. This could be by way of telephone in the first instance but more alarmingly also be by way of texting,posting and private messaging thereafter . For me that scenario, without the knowledge or consent of the client is very disconcerting , disrespectful and perhaps dangerous to the security of the client. The same risks do not apply IMO when one is dealing with a true indie.

For what it's worth, from my own conversations and cross correlations of different bits of info here and there, I think Jamescork is spot on and I'm happy to see the lid being lifted on this. And to those true independents who say ' all I know is I'm a true independent and so are my friends', good for you, but I'm afraid it doesn't mean you are an expert on what's going on elsewhere in the business. With respect, we've met more of the girls here than you have and for the most part are intelligent men. We also, for the most part, care a lot about the girls we see and like to understand what forces we are dealing with. So our inquisitiveness ( and the don't come more inquisitive than ksteve - more anon) is not just nosiness or trying to be clever, it's because we care.

So personally, I'd like to be treated with more respect by an industry that I and my fellow punters support.

So i'd like to say that outside trafficking ( and that Ross kemp program disturbs me greatly because we have so many Romanian girls here) , the others forms of 'pimping' and agencies are perfectly valid. If a girl is prepared to hand over 40 or 50 percent... ok it's a lot and I wish it wasn't so high, but she can still make good money. It's no more than a lapdancer hands over here in the most reputable clubs for example and they still have to pay rent on top of that.

So if by having more open discussion about these topics we can remove the stigma associated with some of these options , I think it will be good for the industry and will stop a lot of the negativity and finger pointing going on behind the scenes on this site. And, most importantly, it will enable us clients to be better equipped to identify where truly something is not right, i.e., the involvement of traffickers.

So I'd encourage the agencies and so called pimps to come forward and start engaging on these boards to explain what the true nature of their side of the business is. I really don't think it's going to any harm to your business. And for now at least, you don't have to identify what girls fall into what categories. The lid is already coming off this story and I'd say judging by the rumours your business is already suffering by association.

So open up, give the guys who support your livelihood a bit more credit and respect please and I think we can all create a better and safer environment for the ladies to work in. And we can stand up , with a cleaner conscience, against the likes of the TORL campaigners, who really WILL affect your business if they get their way. At the moment, they would trash us in any open debate because we really know shag all for certain about how many 'independent' girls there are working here.

As for ksteve's point about privacy of pm conversations, I don't believe for a second that there is an issue with some pimp managing pm's. Only a very few girls use this medium to attract business here and when someone does it a lot, we all get excited and they in turn get good business from it. So lets say the girl shares a flat with another, is having a busy day, but would like to keep the pm campaign going strong because she's generating a lot of interest through it. She might say to her flat mate, would you mind answering a few of these for me while I'm busy for the next hour. A bit naughty certainly, but not the end of the world IMHO. They are using pm as a prospecting tool, and having some genuine fun sexy banter along the way, but not trying to find a boyfriend. It's business! And if any ladies reading this do that, it's not worth it, you'll get caught out and generate more fuss than it's worth.

[El Gordo]

I don't have a moral problem with agencies, if they are advertising as agencies. I've never believed the argument, which I've read many times here, that "with an independent, she gets 100% of the money". Ask an independent escort some time what her expenses are like. But Irish agencies are a fairly bad deal for the escorts. If a lady doesn't speak much English and doesn't know Ireland then she almost has to come here with an agency initially, but good escorts figure out quite quickly that they are paying 50% and not getting much in return, so the ones who plan to keep coming back tend to go independent as soon as they can. As a result, in Ireland the better escorts tend to be independent. You can certainly get lucky with an agency escort, and I have more than once, but it is more of a risk.

[Lucy Chambers]

Dear oh dear, what has rattled James' cage?

An agency escort is no different to an indie, except for a couple of vital issues..free will being the main one. If I have an appointment, like now, for 8.30am, I am there because I chose to be. Not because my agency rang me and told me to get ready. If you want to be 100 percent sure, then Indie is the only way to go.

[carlos marvado]

I don't have a moral problem with agencies, if they are advertising as agencies. I've never believed the argument, which I've read many times here, that "with an independent, she gets 100% of the money". Ask an independent escort some time what her expenses are like. But Irish agencies are a fairly bad deal for the escorts. If a lady doesn't speak much English and doesn't know Ireland then she almost has to come here with an agency initially, but good escorts figure out quite quickly that they are paying 50% and not getting much in return, so the ones who plan to keep coming back tend to go independent as soon as they can. As a result, in Ireland the better escorts tend to be independent. You can certainly get lucky with an agency escort, and I have more than once, but it is more of a risk.

Agree with you on agencies El Gordo. If the escort is working with them of her free will there is no moral issue. With an agency, your call is probably guaranteed to be answered, you will probably get to see an escort when you show up, however, you may very well not get the girl you expect to meet, she may have little or no English and all the services listed will not necessarily be available......but this risk also exists with independents or those advertised as such. My main issue with agencies, was that I always liked to meet escorts who gave 100% and who would get to keep 100% in return. Plus an independent's attitude towards a client differs from an agency escort's attitude. With the agency escort, you are a client of the agency and high turnover of clients is the name of the game, whereas with an independent you are her client and service is more important to her as she wants to retain repeat clients.

Of course independents do get to keep 100% of the money they make (turnover), but like any business they will have expenditure and outlay.......they just don't have to hand over a proportion or all of it to an agency, pimp or trafficker.

The attitude that some contributers (not referring to El Gordo here) have expressed towards pimps seems a little blase and maybe we all have differing perceptions of what a pimp actually does, but if somebody is controlling an escort, forcing her to do anything that she does not want to do, work when, where or with a client she does not want to, or when any form of coercion or unwelcome influence is being exerted, then that for me is up there with trafficking and I would feel uncomfortable having any interaction with such people on a forum.

[carlos marvado]

Dear oh dear, what has rattled James' cage?

An agency escort is no different to an indie, except for a couple of vital issues..free will being the main one. If I have an appointment, like now, for 8.30am, I am there because I chose to be. Not because my agency rang me and told me to get ready. If you want to be 100 percent sure, then Indie is the only way to go.

Lucy I think the point James is making is that an agency escort has a choice of whether to work for a particular agency or to get up and go elsewhere. Of course, an independent can choose to work when she wants to work and she can also choose if she wants to meet a particular caller or not. With an agency it's more like working for a company, they want you to work when it's suits them and when they have clients and you don't get to pick and choose your clients.