Focus on Ruhama

[Smarty]

I've said it here before and I will say it again Ruhama is just a group of frustrated nuns, who would'nt get a ride off a priest.

Lets face it Ruhama was initially set up as an out reach project to help girls working the streets.

Lets face it the street action in Dublin has dropped alarmingly over the last 10 years.

With hardly anyone working the streets, they have had to reinvent themselves, to keep getting the generous Govt grants (when was the last time you seen a street collection for Ruhama), and keep themselves in plus offices.

Cue the Traffiked women who evil Irish men are abusing. They have exaggerated the problem totally.

In my personal experiences of visiting escorts over many the years I have yet to meet the "Frightened traffiked woman type" most of the girls are sound business women with a cheery disposition

[warmcome]

The subject matter and scenery of our capital may well constitute the material for an interesting film,
but fiction it is and it is gladly not a reality to any great extent. I know this through my research with many
businesswomen visiting Ireland to trade. Also, independent of my research is a report published by the garda for 2008-
They claim they discovered 4 women that were trafficked into Ireland by criminal gangs. In the same year several thousand
girls visited Ireland to do business.

[nicegirlsarenice]

The subject matter and scenery of our capital may well constitute the material for an interesting film,
but fiction it is and it is gladly not a reality to any great extent. I know this through my research with many
businesswomen visiting Ireland to trade. Also, independent of my research is a report published by the garda for 2008-
They claim they discovered 4 women that were trafficked into Ireland by criminal gangs. In the same year several thousand
girls visited Ireland to do business.

And all of them were probably just saying they were trafficked in order to get out of criminal offences, being deported, in order to get aid (money) etc. What a scam.

And it pisses me off to see someone like Mr. Fussy trying to be apologetic to Ruhama, they have no "points" or "side of the argument". There are just people who KNOW and people who DON'T KNOW, Ruhama picks on the latter and fills them with complete lies.

[MrFussy]

And all of them were probably just saying they were trafficked in order to get out of criminal offences, being deported, in order to get aid (money) etc. What a scam.

And it pisses me off to see someone like Mr. Fussy trying to be apologetic to Ruhama, they have no "points" or "side of the argument". There are just people who KNOW and people who DON'T KNOW, Ruhama picks on the latter and fills them with complete lies.

Did you actually read my posts? I maintain that EI and Ruhama have some common goals, my post was in relation to the post questioning their values etc. My point was that I do not know what their value system is, but that as a regular punter on here and with the subject matter that EI advertises, we are not in any position to become judge and jury....as I said...my opinion.

[carlos marvado]

Did you actually read my posts? I maintain that EI and Ruhama have some common goals, my post was in relation to the post questioning their values etc. My point was that I do not know what their value system is, but that as a regular punter on here and with the subject matter that EI advertises, we are not in any position to become judge and jury....as I said...my opinion.

E-I is radically different to Ruhama in one key respect.........E-I does not seek to inhibit or limit freedom of choices in respect to sexual activity or how people make their living (with a few notable exceptions of services which may not be advertised here).

[MrFussy]

EI makes a vast sum of money from its site, and isdeliberately located outside Irish jurisdiction etc. It is not a free advertising forum so I dare say it's goal is not to ' inhibit or limit freedom of choices in respect to sexual activity or how people make their living'...its a profit making enterprise, that's the goal. We are not all on here to advocate freedom of choice, punters view adverts and escorts advertise. I accept that and am happy with that, but as far as I am concerned that structure limits its ability to attack other organisations, hence my disappointment with the post. Recognise why we are here.

[Patricia]

EI makes a vast sum of money from its site, and isdeliberately located outside Irish jurisdiction etc. It is not a free advertising forum so I dare say it's goal is not to ' inhibit or limit freedom of choices in respect to sexual activity or how people make their living'...its a profit making enterprise, that's the goal. We are not all on here to advocate freedom of choice, punters view adverts and escorts advertise. I accept that and am happy with that, but as far as I am concerned that structure limits its ability to attack other organisations, hence my disappointment with the post. Recognise why we are here.

Mr Fussy, I accept your view, but I don't personally feel that - because E-I is a commercial business - I shouldn't comment on organisations like Ruhama. Also, just because E-I is a business, doesn't mean the only goal is to make money. I'd also like to see E-I behaving responsibly and contributing to the escort industry in a positive way.

[nicegirlsarenice]

EI makes a vast sum of money from its site, and isdeliberately located outside Irish jurisdiction etc. It is not a free advertising forum so I dare say it's goal is not to ' inhibit or limit freedom of choices in respect to sexual activity or how people make their living'...its a profit making enterprise, that's the goal. We are not all on here to advocate freedom of choice, punters view adverts and escorts advertise. I accept that and am happy with that, but as far as I am concerned that structure limits its ability to attack other organisations, hence my disappointment with the post. Recognise why we are here.

See this is the thing I don't understand MrFussy, your idea that an organization should somehow have a "neutral" opinion of everything to do with it just because it makes money from it is a total nonsense. All organizations want to put forward their point of view, it doesn't matter how much money they make. You can't censor up everything one organizations says and only listen to the other side because they make money out of it, Ruhama have been saying the most outrageous, despicable lies about sites like E-I which they know themselves are false. All you're doing if you're doing that is giving a total bias to the side that is allegedly voluntary. Money should not matter at all in whether or not someone can give an opinion on it.

You're apparently saying that E-I has a conflict of interest here and so isn't allowed to comment at all?! E-I isn't the judge and jury in this thing, E-I is just giving its opinions. Ruhama's opinions are that E-I should be shut down and E-I's not allowed to have the same opinions of them because E-I makes "vast amounts of money"? The escorts like E-I as well Mr. Fussy, the escorts do well, E-I do well, the punters do well, EVERYONE does well, EXCEPT Ruhama.

You're saying that E-I isn't allowed to argue its case and I find that wrong MrFussy. E-I cannot condone the opinions of Ruhama in any way because Ruhama is stating that E-I should not be allowed to exist.

And besides, E-I can't be responsible for every comment made on the forums. They don't necessarily reflect the official views of E-I.

[carlos marvado]

It goes without saying that E-I is a commercial for profit organisation. It's also obvious why it is located outside the jurisdiction of the ROI and most if not all punters and escorts would freely admit (behind their screen of anonymity) what they are on this site for.

While the help and support that Ruhama provides for escorts and prostitutes who wish to exit the business or who have been rescued from forced sexual exploitation is to be welcomed, their underlying aim seems to be to, as far as possible, eliminate both the supply and demand aspects of the sex business. Apart from the brothels and the on-street trade which are illegal, the only way that they can possibly try to achieve their objectives, is to have the legal aspects of the business criminalised, both for the independent escort working alone and for the clients. If escorts working alone were to be criminalised, this would only serve to push the business even further underground and into the hands of people who would be prepared to take big risks for high rewards. Now if they think that anything is going to put the oldest business out of business, they need a serious reality check. The best way of tackling trafficking and the illegal aspects of the sex trade is to normalise and regulate those aspects which are not currently illegal. If the state and it's institutions supported the choice of those women who decide voluntarily to do this work and clients are not made to feel under the threat of exposure and/or prosecution, then Ruhama and the Gardai would probably gain plenty of allies in their quest to tackle trafficking and forced sexual exploitation. In many cases where crimes have or are being committed, the police rely on the support of the public......they would stand a better chance of getting that support if whistle blowers were guaranteed that their anonymity would not be compromised.

Because Ruhama would like to paint all escorts as being trafficked or forced into sexual exploitation, little reference gets made to escorts who chose to work here because of the higher rates that apply here compared to most other countries or the children or elderly parents in developing countries or even other parts of Europe who sometimes depend on their remittances. In some respects, it's the modern day equivalent of the many Irish who emigrated over the centuries and who had to take jobs that nobody else wanted to support those who stayed in Ireland.

But Ruhama continue to push their hidden agenda, despite the lessons of history, continue to produce questionable statistics and continue to try to justify their existence and funding.