Warning - limerick

[FRANK1970]

Please don't make go looking again, like yourself I spent ages reading loads of legal documents (painful) untill I came across the relevant one, don't have it to hand so I'm recalling from memory

YES anon361 YOUR RIGHT

[FRANK1970]

The escorts at hand haven't contacted me, but, most escorts in this situation actually want to disappear quietly, they don't want to be the poster girls for a justice for escorts campaign, even if someone offered them legal help to fight the case.

Legal help isn't really something E-I can offer anyway. However we are trying to help this situation in a more broader sense. The petition is one thing. There are other things going on behind the scenes but it is delicate and most of the things we are doing are best not debated in public at the moment, though I may be able to disclose more about them as in the future.

We are working hard on stuff like this behind the scenes, and that's why it annoyed me when Mr Fussy contacted me yesterday telling me it was bullshit I couldn't offer them the help of a friendly solicitor etc and that I obviously have no interest in escort welfare etc.

But, new day today, and hopefully we can move past the debate on whether E-I should have helpful solicitors in place, and instead talk about if there is anything we can do to help these ladies or in a broader sense. The petition is one thing. I know many of you think it isn't going to achieve anything but we are trying to make progress with various parties on a number of issues behind the scenes and I think it would help if I could say "Look how many Irish people support this...". So, if anyone can help us promote that further, by for example posting about it on other popular message boards they use, I think all this will help. We need to work together to get progress on all these issues. I am genuinely up for putting work in myself. If escorts and clients can do what they can too, it will all help I think.

Pat x

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Legal help isn't really something E-I can offer AND YOU BETTER OFF

[anon361]

I can't seem to find this anywhere.........

A brothel is a term, not a legal definition, or at least I can't find it legally defined anywhere..........

Where, legally is a brothel defined as 2 or more girls working together???

Can't find where I got the last information but this is an extract from Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, 1993, Section 11 which I reckon is what they are using to prosecute independents with. I highlighted the portions I think are the relevant bits
Brothel keeping.
11.—A person who—
( a ) keeps or manages or acts or assists in the management of a brothel,
( b ) being the tenant, lessee, occupier or person in charge of a premises, knowingly permits such premises or any part thereof to be used as a brothel or for the purposes of habitual prostitution, or
( c ) being the lessor or landlord of any premises or the agent of such lessor or landlord, lets such premises or any part thereof with the knowledge that such premises or some part thereof are or is to be used as a brothel, or is wilfully a party to the continued use of such premises or any part thereof as a brothel,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable—
(i) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding £10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.


So my understanding is one girl rents the place and shares it with another who is a prostitute falls under the outlined portions.

[MrFussy]

I met one of the girls this evening...it's a disgrace the way we can treat some people yet are oblivious to bigger theats and wrongdoers....anyways...
The girls were raided based on a tip off (most likely and agency). They operated out of an apartment complex that had a couple of other girls. They got a booking call first and then guards arrived. The apartment was searched, legally, an ID and warrant were produced. They were taken into custody based on the search findings and photos of their EI profiles, condom stock, lodgement statements and cash were produced as evidence. Copies of their ID's were taken and all phones in their possession were held. They signed a statement in the presence of an appointed solicitor, were held overnight in the cells, were arraigned next morning and sentenced to 6 months (they think) with sentence suspended.

You cannot post ways to avoid any lawful investigation so I will point out your rights...

1. If non English speaking or if not your first language you are entitled to an interpreter and documents translated
2. You are entitled to ask for Garda ID and to ring their station before admitting Gardai
3. You are entitled to make NO statement or admission of guilt no matter what evidence is presented in front of you be it EI profile photos, quantities of condoms, bank lodgements etc.
4. You are entitled to a phone call
5. You are entitled to legal representation
6. You are entitled to enter a NOT GUILTY plea and to have any proceedings explained in an EU approved language

I realise Patricia that there are limitations that can be offered by EI, but as at the very least I suggest the following to be posted on the Escorts site:-

1. Legal rights
2. Legal rights in various languages
3. An acceptance before taking new escorts that they have read their legal rights
4. A support service

Many thanks,
MrF

[MILF Hunter]

I met one of the girls this evening...it's a disgrace the way we can treat some people yet are oblivious to bigger theats and wrongdoers....anyways...
The girls were raided based on a tip off (most likely and agency). They operated out of an apartment complex that had a couple of other girls. They got a booking call first and then guards arrived. The apartment was searched, legally, an ID and warrant were produced. They were taken into custody based on the search findings and photos of their EI profiles, condom stock, lodgement statements and cash were produced as evidence. Copies of their ID's were taken and all phones in their possession were held. They signed a statement in the presence of an appointed solicitor, were held overnight in the cells, were arraigned next morning and sentenced to 6 months (they think) with sentence suspended.

You cannot post ways to avoid any lawful investigation so I will point out your rights...

1. If non English speaking or if not your first language you are entitled to an interpreter and documents translated
2. You are entitled to ask for Garda ID and to ring their station before admitting Gardai
3. You are entitled to make NO statement or admission of guilt no matter what evidence is presented in front of you be it EI profile photos, quantities of condoms, bank lodgements etc.
4. You are entitled to a phone call
5. You are entitled to legal representation
6. You are entitled to enter a NOT GUILTY plea and to have any proceedings explained in an EU approved language

I realise Patricia that there are limitations that can be offered by EI, but as at the very least I suggest the following to be posted on the Escorts site:-

1. Legal rights
2. Legal rights in various languages
3. An acceptance before taking new escorts that they have read their legal rights
4. A support service

Many thanks,
MrF

The punting scene in Ireland is kindda becoming too scary for me

Mr Fussy...you are a real nice person (and good at heart)

[Patricia]

I realise Patricia that there are limitations that can be offered by EI, but as at the very least I suggest the following to be posted on the Escorts site:-

1. Legal rights
2. Legal rights in various languages
3. An acceptance before taking new escorts that they have read their legal rights
4. A support service

Many thanks,
MrF

Mr F, why don't you go check my twitter (link in my signature). I've been looking for a solicitor to write a legal advice guide for escorts for months. I also rang 30 odd out of the phone book myself and every one said no. I admit I haven't been looking last few weeks as I've been busy with other matters, but as you'll see if you check my twitter, I have been looking prior to then.

[MrFussy]

Mr F, why don't you go check my twitter (link in my signature). I've been looking for a solicitor to write a legal advice guide for escorts for months. I also rang 30 odd out of the phone book myself and every one said no. I admit I haven't been looking last few weeks as I've been busy with other matters, but as you'll see if you check my twitter, I have been looking prior to then.

I'll make the offer here................I'll provide you with my qualifications etc...you provide me with anonimity clause etc...and I'll help out for free with any such legal advice that can be of benefit.......Bury hatchet or do a Mary Coughlan?

[luther]

Can't find where I got the last information but this is an extract from Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, 1993, Section 11 which I reckon is what they are using to prosecute independents with. I highlighted the portions I think are the relevant bits
Brothel keeping.
11.—A person who—
( a ) keeps or manages or acts or assists in the management of a brothel,
( b ) being the tenant, lessee, occupier or person in charge of a premises, knowingly permits such premises or any part thereof to be used as a brothel or for the purposes of habitual prostitution, or
( c ) being the lessor or landlord of any premises or the agent of such lessor or landlord, lets such premises or any part thereof with the knowledge that such premises or some part thereof are or is to be used as a brothel, or is wilfully a party to the continued use of such premises or any part thereof as a brothel,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable—
(i) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding £10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.


So my understanding is one girl rents the place and shares it with another who is a prostitute falls under the outlined portions.

I appreciate you going to this trouble, but I'm aware of all that, and have see this many times before in the Irish Statute Book..........

Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, 1993, Section 11

But it still doesn't define a brothel, ie, how many girls have to be working together to define a brothel etc........

I know everybody says it's two girls working together, but where does it say that.......

Surely to charge somebody with operating a brothel, you must prove that it was a brothel, and to prove it you must be able to define it.........

Now if the garda raid a premises, and there's 7 or 8 girls working there, then ya, it's a brothel. But 2 girls???

In my opinion, this is the direction I would be looking at to allow 2 girls to work together. If the law is lax in this area it could be exploited........

[MrFussy]

I appreciate you going to this trouble, but I'm aware of all that, and have see this many times before in the Irish Statute Book..........

Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, 1993, Section 11

But it still doesn't define a brothel, ie, how many girls have to be working together to define a brothel etc........

I know everybody says it's two girls working together, but where does it say that.......

Surely to charge somebody with operating a brothel, you must prove that it was a brothel, and to prove it you must be able to define it.........

Now if the garda raid a premises, and there's 7 or 8 girls working there, then ya, it's a brothel. But 2 girls???

In my opinion, this is the direction I would be looking at to allow 2 girls to work together. If the law is lax in this area it could be exploited........

Will forward the relevant info to you tomorrow...there is a definition along the lines of '2 girls or more' grey area is 'working' i.e. 1 girl as housekeeper, 1 girl working gets around this...but so far never a legal challenge...........

[Patricia]

I'll make the offer here................I'll provide you with my qualifications etc...you provide me with anonimity clause etc...and I'll help out for free with any such legal advice that can be of benefit.......Bury hatchet or do a Mary Coughlan?

I can bury hatched with you especially if it is in the interest of the well-being of escorts.