Parnell Street Attack

[WellDressed]

Eh, they HAVE to state facts. Otherwise they're not stats are they? They're whatever they want to public to know.

Ok.........

[Airbusdriver]

Are you f*cking serious???

Okay, well done for being a proud supporter of something that can only be described as DRACONIAN.

You haven't a f*cking clue about the bill, and yet you're so open to supporting it??? WELL AREN'T YOU A LOYAL SHEEP! WELL DONE!

Fuck off to North Korea or Russia if you wanna see where this leads!

"Means to an end". "For the greater good". FASCISM IN A NUTSHELL!

Take a chill pill dude. Seriously, relax.

99.999% of people dont read bills.

The Planning and Development Bill has 700 pages, who would read that?

Of the 88 Bills so far this year, I haven't read any. I generally follow Dail Debates and media reports instead.

I have no problem with you having your view. You need to lobby the actual decision makers if you want it changed/scrapped. Mickey D included who signs all our laws into effect. IMHO Anything that will help put our racists and Hate merchants behind bars is welcome, the current hate laws are a joke.

[Stephanie]

Take a chill pill dude. Seriously, relax.

99.999% of people dont read bills.

The Planning and Development Bill has 700 pages, who would read that?

Of the 88 Bills so far this year, I haven't read any. I generally follow Dail Debates and media reports instead.

I have no problem with you having your view. You need to lobby the actual decision makers if you want it changed/scrapped. Mickey D included who signs all our laws into effect. IMHO Anything that will help put our racists and Hate merchants behind bars is welcome, the current hate laws are a joke.

That’s how states end up like California and Oregon and Seattle and New York and …

Because 99.99 % of people don’t read the bills , the referendums , the proposed legislation and vote Blindly ::

: to the horrific detriment of a society .



Learn from Others’ Mistakes !!!

If you don’t know what’s in a Bill , you have no place supporting it / rejecting it .

Be a good citizen and inform yourself .

Before causing irreversible harm to your country .

[Palatine]

Take a chill pill dude. Seriously, relax.

99.999% of people dont read bills.

The Planning and Development Bill has 700 pages, who would read that?

Of the 88 Bills so far this year, I haven't read any. I generally follow Dail Debates and media reports instead.

I have no problem with you having your view. You need to lobby the actual decision makers if you want it changed/scrapped. Mickey D included who signs all our laws into effect. IMHO Anything that will help put our racists and Hate merchants behind bars is welcome, the current hate laws are a joke.

The irony here is that all those lambasting you for not having read all 38 pages of the legalese that is the bill seem to have gotten their summary of that bill from twitter. I really doubt they've read it themselves in any detail.

Specifically mentioned was section 15.4.

"It give Gardaí authority to access the content of private computers"

No, it doesn't. At least not without conditions. Those conditions include that the computer is on a premises that is being searched, and that the search is being conducted under authority of a search warrant granted by a judge of the District Court (section 15.1). The impression given the above statement is that this allows Gardaí unfettered access to anyone's computer anywhere, which is just not true and anyone who has read the bill and not some twitter interpretation of it, would know that.

"if they believe they contain information liable to incite hatred even if such information has never been published".

More rubbish. Article 15.4 mentions nothing about whether the computer may have information, or whether it has been published or not. The only condition is that the computer is at a location which is subject to a valid search warrant that has been issued because a Garda has convinced a District Court judge that there is "reasonable grounds for suspecting that evidence of, or related to, the commission of an offence under section 7, 8 or 10 is to be found" at the place. The Garda doesn't have to believe anything about the computer. He has to believe that there is likely to be evidence at the premises, and he has to convince a District Court judge of that first.

"failure to comply may result in a jail sentence of up to 12 months". This is true, but not under section 15.4 but under section 15.8 which states that if you obstruct the search of a computer found at a premises subject to search warrant granted by a District Court judge, then you can be charged and the maximum sentence a judge can give you if you're found guilty is 12 months. This is the same maximum sentence for purchasing sex, and I expect there will be a whole lot less people serving 12 month sentence for obstruction of a search under section 15.4 than there are purchasers of sex in prison for that offence right now.

If we're going to have a discussion let's keep it somewhat factual. There's too much shrill scaremongering happening here. If we're going to lambast people for not reading a bill, maybe we should read it ourselves first and represent it accurately and not spin it to suit an agenda.

[EscortInspector]

The irony here is that all those lambasting you for not having read all 38 pages of the legalese that is the bill seem to have gotten their summary of that bill from twitter. I really doubt they've read it themselves in any detail.

Specifically mentioned was section 15.4.

"It give Gardaí authority to access the content of private computers"

No, it doesn't. At least not without conditions. Those conditions include that the computer is on a premises that is being searched, and that the search is being conducted under authority of a search warrant granted by a judge of the District Court (section 15.1). The impression given the above statement is that this allows Gardaí unfettered access to anyone's computer anywhere, which is just not true and anyone who has read the bill and not some twitter interpretation of it, would know that.

"if they believe they contain information liable to incite hatred even if such information has never been published".

More rubbish. Article 15.4 mentions nothing about whether the computer may have information, or whether it has been published or not. The only condition is that the computer is at a location which is subject to a valid search warrant that has been issued because a Garda has convinced a District Court judge that there is "reasonable grounds for suspecting that evidence of, or related to, the commission of an offence under section 7, 8 or 10 is to be found" at the place. The Garda doesn't have to believe anything about the computer. He has to believe that there is likely to be evidence at the premises, and he has to convince a District Court judge of that first.

"failure to comply may result in a jail sentence of up to 12 months". This is true, but not under section 15.4 but under section 15.8 which states that if you obstruct the search of a computer found at a premises subject to search warrant granted by a District Court judge, then you can be charged and the maximum sentence a judge can give you if you're found guilty is 12 months. This is the same maximum sentence for purchasing sex, and I expect there will be a whole lot less people serving 12 month sentence for obstruction of a search under section 15.4 than there are purchasers of sex in prison for that offence right now.

If we're going to have a discussion let's keep it somewhat factual. There's too much shrill scaremongering happening here. If we're going to lambast people for not reading a bill, maybe we should read it ourselves first and represent it accurately and not spin it to suit an agenda.

Post a link to the thing we're supposed to be reading

[Palatine]

[

Post a link to the thing we're supposed to be reading

Here's a link to the bill that people having been giving out to others for not reading. Enjoy.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/b...?tab=bill-text

[WellDressed]

The irony here is that all those lambasting you for not having read all 38 pages of the legalese that is the bill seem to have gotten their summary of that bill from twitter. I really doubt they've read it themselves in any detail.

Specifically mentioned was section 15.4.

"It give Gardaí authority to access the content of private computers"

No, it doesn't. At least not without conditions. Those conditions include that the computer is on a premises that is being searched, and that the search is being conducted under authority of a search warrant granted by a judge of the District Court (section 15.1). The impression given the above statement is that this allows Gardaí unfettered access to anyone's computer anywhere, which is just not true and anyone who has read the bill and not some twitter interpretation of it, would know that.

"if they believe they contain information liable to incite hatred even if such information has never been published".

More rubbish. Article 15.4 mentions nothing about whether the computer may have information, or whether it has been published or not. The only condition is that the computer is at a location which is subject to a valid search warrant that has been issued because a Garda has convinced a District Court judge that there is "reasonable grounds for suspecting that evidence of, or related to, the commission of an offence under section 7, 8 or 10 is to be found" at the place. The Garda doesn't have to believe anything about the computer. He has to believe that there is likely to be evidence at the premises, and he has to convince a District Court judge of that first.

"failure to comply may result in a jail sentence of up to 12 months". This is true, but not under section 15.4 but under section 15.8 which states that if you obstruct the search of a computer found at a premises subject to search warrant granted by a District Court judge, then you can be charged and the maximum sentence a judge can give you if you're found guilty is 12 months. This is the same maximum sentence for purchasing sex, and I expect there will be a whole lot less people serving 12 month sentence for obstruction of a search under section 15.4 than there are purchasers of sex in prison for that offence right now.

If we're going to have a discussion let's keep it somewhat factual. There's too much shrill scaremongering happening here. If we're going to lambast people for not reading a bill, maybe we should read it ourselves first and represent it accurately and not spin it to suit an agenda.

I have purposely not engaged with you because all you do is whinge but here you go -

(1) If a judge of the District Court is satisfied by information on oath of a member that
there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that evidence of, or relating to, the
commission of an offence under section 7, 8 or 10 is to be found in any place, the
judge may issue a warrant for the search of that place and any persons found at that
place.

10. (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3) and section 11, a person shall be guilty of an
offence under this section if the person—

(a) prepares or possesses material that is likely to incite violence or hatred against a
person or a group of persons on account of their protected characteristics or any
of those characteristics with a view to the material being communicated to the
public or a section of the public, whether by himself or herself or another person,
and
(b) prepares or possesses such material with intent to incite violence or hatred
against such a person or group of persons on account of those characteristics or
any of those characteristics or being reckless as to whether such violence or
hatred is thereby incited.

(4) A member acting under the authority of a search warrant under this section may—
(a) operate any computer at the place that is being searched or cause any such
computer to be operated by a person accompanying the member for that purpose,
and
(b) require any person at that place who appears to the member to have lawful access
to the information in any such computer—

t(i) to give to the member any password necessary to operate it and any
encryption key or code necessary to unencrypt the information accessible byhe computer,
(ii) otherwise to enable the member to examine the information accessible by the
computer in a form in which the information is visible and legible, or
(iii) to produce the information in a form in which it can be removed and in
which it is, or can be made, visible and legible.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/...of-expression/



Link to the entire bill. I encourage everyone to read it and see who defines what is hate and the over reach of power the government wants to do.

Palatine the only people with agendas are far left champagne socialists like yourself. You would be better off sticking to humble bragging about going to michelin star restaurants on a thread about a stabbed child while slandering the peasants

[Palatine]

I don't know where the line is on free speech myself. Some cases are obvious to me. Telling people to go out a kill foreigners and "gyppos" should be a crime in my view. Saying that a lot of burglaries in the countryside are carried out by travellers shouldn't be. There's a very delicate balance to be struck here. I don't envy lawmakers coming up with exact wording. But I'm not convinced either by the argument that all speech should be protected even if that right is at the expense of others' rights to life, property and safety.

What I will say is that I won't be listening to anyone from the Irish Council for Civil Liberties who took a 2 year holiday when we were literally being locked in our homes, only now to be worried about thugs being recorded on Garda body cams.

[Palatine]

Palatine the only people with agendas are far left champagne socialists like yourself. You would be better off sticking to humble bragging about going to michelin star restaurants on a thread about a stabbed child while slandering the peasants

Dude, I am nowhere near socialist. I just don't have an agenda against foreigners or immigration or spreading fearmongering nonsense.

You posted bullshit that implied Gardai could just grab anyone's device. I posted the actual bill and the context that it was a computer on a premises.subject to a search warrant issued by a judge under auspicion that a crime had been committed. You posted a skewed twitter interpretation.

Now, use the ignore button if you're triggered. Bbye.

[WellDressed]

Dude, I am nowhere near socialist. I just don't have an agenda against foreigners or immigration or spreading fearmongering nonsense.

You posted bullshit that implied Gardai could just grab anyone's device. I posted the actual bill and the context that it was a computer on a premises.subject to a search warrant issued by a judge under auspicion that a crime had been committed. You posted a skewed twitter interpretation.

Now, use the ignore button if you're triggered. Bbye.

Suspicion to possess. Not posted not shared suspected of having. They can then search any of your devices.

We already have laws that prosecute for hate crimes, riots, arson, attacking gardai, incitement to hatred.

All being used this week. This bill is vaguely worded and is so on purpose. If you don't want to interact with me then by all means don't drag me into replying. Now jog along like a good lad

Agenda about foreigners? That's the default left position.

I am married to a foreigner and had 4 kids with her, I must be playing the long game, I'll deport her one of these days soon