Vote Yes for Jobs and Recovery ???

[lordjohn]

I'm not in favour of The Lisbon Treaty but it would be unfair to blame this weeks job losses on voting yes. It's surely too early yet to see the implications of it.

I don't think that voting Yes has caused the losses.

But will voting yes create any new Jobs as promised ?

[Westsidex]

I don't think that voting Yes has caused the losses.

But will voting yes create any new Jobs as promised ?

the money will come rolling in.Voting yes will create jobs but those jobs will be occupied by cheap labour from abroad.Cheap labour equals lower taxes too.This country will never recover unless some serious control is given to immigration.

Sincerely,
Westside.

[ber]

How is Smarty embarrassing himself ?
Don't the figures speak for themselves ?

I believe his point was vote Yes for Jobs, when are these jobs coming

Well we were told Yes would mean a minimum wage of 1.84 and conscription
Was anyone conscripted and did the minimum wage change this week?

[luther]

Guys you couldn't be serious???

A connection between jobs lost this week and a yes vote???...........FFS..........

No jobs created yet???............Give me a break.......The treaty hasn't even been ratified yet, all we did was vote on this countries agreement to ratify it. How the hell do you expect jobs to be created when the bloody thing hasn't even been entered into force???........... And be realistic, does anybody really expect jobs to be created over night??? We're talking about a long tern thing here, where'll be no quick fixes.........

I'm sorry Smarty, but you are embarrasing yourself with threads like this, and Lordjohn, I'm afraid you're in the same boat with statements like "Don't these figures speak for themselves?"...........

The bloody thing hasn't even been passed yet, you guys really need to learn a little more about it.........

Even a little bit. This might give you the general gist of it. At least it's a start.........

Treaty of Lisbon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[lordjohn]

A connection between jobs lost this week and a yes vote???...........FFS..........

[/url]

The connection between a Yes vote and jobs saving or creation was made by the vote Yes to Lisbon side.

The initial point in this thread was that the opposite has happened.

Therefore I agree with you the connection between jobs is BS as the initial claim from the yes side is BS.

As in the case of Aer Lingus it should never have been privatised in the first place, when it was privatised it was the fashion to privitise semi state companies, this comes from a Thatcherite belief that the market will find its own level. We can see from the Financial crises that many a Capitalist company such as banks and car manufactures just to name two have come cap in hand to Governments to have the taxpayer bail them out.

We are an island nation and we depend on air and sea to get us off this island. Therefore the retention of a national carrier is far more vital to an island than our continental neighbours.

If the job cuts and new pay and conditions are not accepted by the staff, then Aer Lingus has threatened to pull a lot of its operations as they are entitled to do as they are a private company. If that happens we will be facing thousands of job losses and we will be at the mercy of the Ryanairs of the world. Not a pleasant thought

[luther]

The connection between a Yes vote and jobs saving or creation was made by the vote Yes to Lisbon side.

The was only voted on a wet week ago, it hasn't even been ratified yet, I don't think anybody claimed, or would be foolish enough to expect that it could have any impact yet.........

The initial point in this thread was that the opposite has happened.

Again, the treaty hasn't even been entered into force yet.........how could it have had any impact, good or bad???

Therefore I agree with you the connection between jobs is BS as the initial claim from the yes side is BS.

Again, how can you say that the claim is BS when the treaty isn't even in place yet???

Go back and have another read of this at the very least...........

Treaty of Lisbon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ber]

The connection between a Yes vote and jobs saving or creation was made by the vote Yes to Lisbon side.

The initial point in this thread was that the opposite has happened.

Therefore I agree with you the connection between jobs is BS as the initial claim from the yes side is BS.

As in the case of Aer Lingus it should never have been privatised in the first place, when it was privatised it was the fashion to privitise semi state companies, this comes from a Thatcherite belief that the market will find its own level. We can see from the Financial crises that many a Capitalist company such as banks and car manufactures just to name two have come cap in hand to Governments to have the taxpayer bail them out.

We are an island nation and we depend on air and sea to get us off this island. Therefore the retention of a national carrier is far more vital to an island than our continental neighbours.

If the job cuts and new pay and conditions are not accepted by the staff, then Aer Lingus has threatened to pull a lot of its operations as they are entitled to do as they are a private company. If that happens we will be facing thousands of job losses and we will be at the mercy of the Ryanairs of the world. Not a pleasant thought

Well they are two sides to this story without the RYAN AIRs and other cheap carriers ordinary
people would not be able to afford to travel ,its not too many years ago when it cost 400 or
500 quid to fly to England, now we can travel half way round the world for that much. So
people can bitch and complain but bottom line if they want cheap holidays in the sun and
weekend breaks they need the cheap carriers.
Also when Aer Lingus was a state company the culture of extravagance and waste put
John O Donoghue to shame pilots and cabin staff staying in 5 star hotels on lay overs
with large expense accounts concessions even for family travel ,pay rates for executives
and ground staff excessive,totally overstaffed. Bottom line they are or were never anywhere
near competitive,since they went private they had serious ground to make up and have failed
to for simple reason their costs are still way too high. Aer Lingus staff pay rates and conditions
are still way out of line with their competitors simple as. We are subsidising enough things
in this country do u want prop up Aer Lingus as well? With the amount of carriers about and
the competition about there will always be someone to fill the gaps at a competitive rate
if Aer Lingus pull flights

[carlos marvado]

The connection between a Yes vote and jobs saving or creation was made by the vote Yes to Lisbon side.

The initial point in this thread was that the opposite has happened.

Therefore I agree with you the connection between jobs is BS as the initial claim from the yes side is BS.

As in the case of Aer Lingus it should never have been privatised in the first place, when it was privatised it was the fashion to privitise semi state companies, this comes from a Thatcherite belief that the market will find its own level. We can see from the Financial crises that many a Capitalist company such as banks and car manufactures just to name two have come cap in hand to Governments to have the taxpayer bail them out.

We are an island nation and we depend on air and sea to get us off this island. Therefore the retention of a national carrier is far more vital to an island than our continental neighbours.

If the job cuts and new pay and conditions are not accepted by the staff, then Aer Lingus has threatened to pull a lot of its operations as they are entitled to do as they are a private company. If that happens we will be facing thousands of job losses and we will be at the mercy of the Ryanairs of the world. Not a pleasant thought

There is absolutely no requirement to have a state owned national carrier. There is a very good piece in today's Irish Independent comparing Aer Lingus and Ryanair in terms of turnover, passenger numbers, employee numbers, labour costs, passenger numbers per employee and average staff cost per passenger. Here are the figures:

Revenue:................................Aer Lingus - € 1357 million................Ryanair - € 2,940 million
Staff:......................................................- 4,035........................................- 6,340
Payroll costs:...........................................- € 334 million.............................- € 309 million
Passengers:.............................................- 10 million..................................- 58.6 million
Passengers per staff member................... - 2,500.......................................- 9,200
Ave. Staff Cost per passenger...................-€ 33.35......................................- € 5.27

Aer Lingus is no different to any other part of the public sector incl. semi-states (current or former) in this country....totally inefficient, over staffed and over paid, with executives who's pay is not performance related and with boards that are appointed based on political patronage and cronyism. If the unions want to walk Aer Lingus staff into bankruptcy, let them....they are surplus to requirements and if they cant compete in the real world, the tax payer should not be asked to subsidize an inefficient operation and their fat cats executives with their perks.

[Westsidex]

There is absolutely no requirement to have a state owned national carrier. There is a very good piece in today's Irish Independent comparing Aer Lingus and Ryanair in terms of turnover, passenger numbers, employee numbers, labour costs, passenger numbers per employee and average staff cost per passenger. Here are the figures:

Revenue:................................Aer Lingus - € 1357 million................Ryanair - € 2,940 million
Staff:......................................................- 4,035........................................- 6,340
Payroll costs:...........................................- € 334 million.............................- € 309 million
Passengers:.............................................- 10 million..................................- 58.6 million
Passengers per staff member................... - 2,500.......................................- 9,200
Ave. Staff Cost per passenger...................-€ 33.35......................................- € 5.27

Aer Lingus is no different to any other part of the public sector incl. semi-states (current or former) in this country....totally inefficient, over staffed and over paid, with executives who's pay is not performance related and with boards that are appointed based on political patronage and cronyism. If the unions want to walk Aer Lingus staff into bankruptcy, let them....they are surplus to requirements and if they cant compete in the real world, the tax payer should not be asked to subsidize an inefficient operation and their fat cats executives with their perks.

O Leary is one of the best CEOs in the world.He is a key factor in those figures.

Westside.

[carlos marvado]

O Leary is one of the best CEOs in the world.He is a key factor in those figures.

Westside.

We need more O'Leary's.....running the Health Service, running the banks, running the planning process, running the whole f**king joint....and those union jockeys should get a one way ticket on Ryanair's inaugural flight to Cuba.