Irish Sex Trade

[luther]

Well if ure talking recruitement id deff agree with the 50% figure but would say prob even higher

And "recruitment by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation."

[bonny1]

While it is sad that there are gullible girls out there, I believe many girls choose this profession & enjoy what they do. It would be really great if something could be done about the criminals who harass & extort the independent girls who are trying to run professional operations. Surely something could be done about this problem, but what? Not all girls want to be touring all the time, but would love to have an established place with a regular clientele. Unfortunately, when you try, it's the pimps who close you down. not the garda ...

[RodeoMan]

can someone answer me this question - if the girl is not from the European union for example south american how can she gain access into the country, is it on a holiday visa, a studnt visa or are they smuggled into the country. I woul dhave thought that south americans for example would need a visa of some sort,

[adogwithabone]

can someone answer me this question - if the girl is not from the European union for example south american how can she gain access into the country, is it on a holiday visa, a studnt visa or are they smuggled into the country. I woul dhave thought that south americans for example would need a visa of some sort,

A lot of the South Americans are here to study English. With escorting they can not only put themselves through college but send a nice bundle back home. There are legitimate operations that organise college courses, visas etc..

[adogwithabone]

While it is sad that there are gullible girls out there, I believe many girls choose this profession & enjoy what they do. It would be really great if something could be done about the criminals who harass & extort the independent girls who are trying to run professional operations. Surely something could be done about this problem, but what? Not all girls want to be touring all the time, but would love to have an established place with a regular clientele. Unfortunately, when you try, it's the pimps who close you down. not the garda ...

I know quite well 4 apartments of genuinely independent escorts in Dublin. While I hear the odd story about robberies and dangerous clients there has been no concerted effort by anyone to close them down. I would have heard. The worst that I have heard happen is the odd fake malicious review.

[adogwithabone]

Your figure of 50% is an estimate or a guess on your part and not a known fact???

As for trafficing, there are many definitions but The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, defines human trafficking as the "recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation."

I'd take it as meaning something bad............

I said "as I know it.... Up to 50%" If you are going to quote me at least get it right. In any event the figure comes from the escorts that I know. They keep in touch with each other a lot and are aware which apartments are run by "agencies". It is all to do with accomodation and the ability to speak English. The agencies arrange flights, an apartment and often a "recetionist" to answer the phone. How many of the girls out there with very limited English, do you think decided to leave Prague or Rio De Janeiro to rent out an apartment in Ireland for a week or two and become an escort. Apartments, in Dublin at least, tend to be rented for a year, maybe 6 months. You will notice that the girls tend to be here for a week or two. Does this not give you some kind of a clue? I have been to some apartments a number of times and always with a different crew of girls. How many times have you noticed that the girl on the phone spoke better English than the girl you met?
I do believe that most of these girls are not escorts at home but are induced to come here with the promise of earning big money and with all their flights and accomodation paid for.

[Smarty]

Ruhama is an organisation run by man hating nuns who are running their own agenda in exaggerating the problem.

They are calling for laws to punish the punters with fines or jail time such as is the case in Sweden.
Make no mistake about it this will only succeed in driving the problem more underground.

Often the Swedish model is touted as the perfect solution but it has been proved to be far from perfect in practice, and has only served to put women in a more vulnerable position. As they are afraid to report an act of violence fearing that they will be prosecuted for being a prostitute.

Please see re Swedish law problems
Swedish Prostitution Law: Critiques

I looked at the Mirror yesterday that had a shock headline of 15 year olds on the game from Ruhama report. If you were to believe the Mirror based on this report from this hive of nuns with their hidden agendas, you would think that there are hundreds of women chained up in back rooms of Ireland just for the purpose of sexually gratifying us perverted punters. Also that scores of schoolgirls are being pushed out on the street by evil pimps. The Mirror then does a commentary of the evils of prostitution etc at the same time they devote a whole page to advertising Sex lines.

Sex Trafficking claims have often been exaggerated in Ireland by certain interest groups for their ends, while I don’t condone sex trafficking we already have a law that deals with using a victim of sex trafficking for sex and has adequate punishment.
The Criminal Law (Trafficking in Persons and Sexual Offences) Bill 2006.
I believe we may have a problem but a small problem, this is based on my own punting experience and also on an official Garda report.

Several years ago in 2006 we had the conclusion of an 18 month operation quest.
Detective Superintendent John McKeown, who headed Operation Quest at Store St Station, says that there was no evidence that any of the girls are being forced into prostitution, none is underage and most pocket 50 per cent of their earnings.

He says the oldest profession in the world is experiencing similar benefits of our booming economy as other industries and Dublin is now a highly sought after place to work. And he believes that politicians should considering legalising prostitution (SMARTY agrees as in line with the likes of Belgium etc)in a bid to monitor it properly and offer more protection to girls.

¨We have carried out an in-depth investigation into organised prostitution over the past 18 months and we have found no evidence of exploitation or trafficking. There are no gangs involved and there is little violence.

"The youngest girls appear to be 19 and most are in their 20s and early 30s. We have found no evidence of underage girls working - the pimps don't want to bring that kind of attention on themselves. The girls are working because they want to make money and Dublin is somewhere that they can earn a lot of money," Detective Superintendent McKeown said.

"I was very surprised when we started this investigation to find that a lot of the old myths regarding prostitution (which are constantly touted Ruhama - Smarty) by have gone out the window. It is a service that is in demand and there is a lot of money about nowadays. To put it simply, there is room for everyone and plenty of work. The pimps know one another and work side by side. They don't want trouble and there are rarely disputes."

Rather than the Ruhama suggested lock up every evil punter, I would suggest having a system like Belgium which allows prostitution in a tolerant zone and they even get the girls to pay taxes, now thats a novel way to get our economy up and running.

Regards,

Smarty

[ber]

can someone answer me this question - if the girl is not from the European union for example south american how can she gain access into the country, is it on a holiday visa, a studnt visa or are they smuggled into the country. I woul dhave thought that south americans for example would need a visa of some sort,

I think there are ideas in the pipeline to regulate English language schools as at the moment
anybody can set up a school,they are being set up with the sole purpose of getting visas for
girls to work here.

[ber]

And "recruitment by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation."

Well i was using the word recruited loosley because as i see it at least 50% or more of the girls would be agency,i am presuming (and hoping) that the majority of theese would have made contact
with the agencies through the net or other girls that worked here so i consider them as being here
volountarily(while im sure working conditions ,rewards etc may be sugar coated to encourage them to come) what percentage are coerced is a different matter altogether,and i presume different methods of coersion are used from promises of lots of money to violence.This is the group i would be worried about.The amount of girls here with the agencies is hard to know as one add could
be covering several different girls and i do know their treatmernt and conditions with theese agencies vary greatly.The thing is that many of theese girls have to start with agencies as they
would have neither the finances or the knowledge of the buisness to go it alone not to mention
the languae barrier. So all in all id say 50% would be a very conservative estimate.Any given
time i look through the profiles in Cork i can pick at least that percentage agency

[luther]

I said "as I know it.... Up to 50%" If you are going to quote me at least get it right. In any event the figure comes from the escorts that I know

Hence the ??? at the end.........

But since you brought it up..........

Your figures are based on the escorts you know, not on all the escorts in the country, and unless you're spoken to, and asked every escort in the country then your figure of 50% is and estimate based on the information you're received from the escorts you know............

It could be much higher than 50%, it could be much lower than 50%................

Either way, your figures are an estimate based in a limited amount of information.............

Get it???