Afghanistan

[gonzo76]

9/11 - Talibs sheltering O B Laden : had to

Oh right. A cave in Afghanistan is where he was hiding wasn't it? Or was it behind the weapons of mass destruction in Saddam's basement?

But, you know, mission accomplished.

[Stephanie]

Yes this was my point exactly false hope was given they would be much better off if there had been no hope atall ,how will these young women re adjust , the effect on a whole generation will be devastating can you imagine what the levels of mental illness etc will be ? It's going to be Catastrophic

But Ber ,

After 20 yrs of pouring money in there and Training the Locals to oversee their Own ,

and they ran away :: Who let down that country !!? Do you not feel the highly trained

local forces are in any way responsible for the country falling !!?

: they all have Mothers . Don’t you think they should have Fought ?

Don’t you think They should shoulder a good big chunk of the blame ?



I do agree with you , it’s horrific ; catastrophic just as you say .

[ber]

Now the blame game in the US is starting Trump blaming Biden ,Biden blaming Trump for the deal that was struck in Doha .
In reality both Republicans and Democrats are to blame this has spanned 4 administrations Bush ,Obama .Trump and Biden and none are coming out smelling of Rose's.
If you have sympathy for anyone its Biden as he was at the end game and whatever he did stay or go was lose lose as the big decisions had already been taken
The people I have big issue with is the much vaunted US intelligence services how did they get the timescale of the collapse so utterly wrong,it must make you wonder on the accuracy of the information the go to war with

[IDF2]

9/11 - Talibs sheltering O B Laden : had to

Oh, now you remember why you went in there in the first place? Please just stop contributing to this thread. You are embarrassing yourself and even me at this stage for having anything to do with you!

[Stephanie]

Oh right. A cave in Afghanistan is where he was hiding wasn't it? Or was it behind the weapons of mass destruction in Saddam's basement?

But, you know, mission accomplished.

Conflate the two . You showing yourself up again .

[gonzo76]

Conflate the two . You showing yourself up again .

There you go reverting to type with personal insults.

Way to torpedo any credibility in your argument.

They didn't have to go in. For any reason.

[ber]

But Ber ,

After 20 yrs of pouring money in there and Training the Locals to oversee their Own ,

and they ran away :: Who let down that country !!? Do you not feel the highly trained

local forces are in any way responsible for the country falling !!?

: they all have Mothers . Don’t you think they should have Fought ?

Don’t you think They should shoulder a good big chunk of the blame ?



I do agree with you , it’s horrific ; catastrophic just as you say .

But in fairness look who they put their faith in to lead Afghanistan ,an academic who at first sign of trouble soiled his pants and ran,he was never going to be strong enough to deal with the situation .
Again going back to US intelligence they surely should have known this

[IDF2]

But Ber ,

After 20 yrs of pouring money in there and Training the Locals to oversee their Own ,

and they ran away :: Who let down that country !!? Do you not feel the highly trained

local forces are in any way responsible for the country falling !!?

: they all have Mothers . Don’t you think they should have Fought ?

Don’t you think They should shoulder a good big chunk of the blame ?



I do agree with you , it’s horrific ; catastrophic just as you say .

That's your argument, is it? Pretty much the same as the failure of policy in Vietnam. Read some history books, please!!!

[Bukar]

So to try to summarise it:
--US thought it was a good idea to arm mujaheddin in Afganistan while they fought against Russians
--Effect was that Russians suffered many casualties and ultimately lost and left
--Osama Bin Laden was born out of this conflict, rose to prominence on the back of a US made Stinger missile, he then turned on his creators and became their pin up boy for the "War against terror". He found safe heaven in Afganistan where Taliban came to power.
US sent this massive army while also forcing their NATO allies to support them in a search for a single man who was hiding in another country most of the time, and that even US friendly country Pakistan.
US bombed the shit out of already torn country, but mainly used it for testing new weapons, anyone remembers MOAB https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/w...ghanistan.html
These days we hear about the 2BN cost to US taxpayer but there are no reports on how much US arms industry profited from arms deals to arm Afgan army, all falling into Taliban hands now.
Its weird that from the begining they did not train Afgans on maintaning airforce, all was done by foreign contractors, they left when US army left, plenty planes, no one to maintain, arm them.

What happens to Hazaras now?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazaras
Always prosecuted ass they are mainly Shia while everyone else in the country is Sunni.

Rant over

[ber]

On the other hand, a younger generation, having grown up in a forward looking environment, may be unwilling to accept a regressive regime. It may be wishful thinking, but maybe, just maybe, there it's some hope that Afghanistan could return to what it was in the seventies and earlier...

I have a feeling it will be terribly difficult for these young women to achieve anything because it seems that on the ground alot of Afghan males not Taliban are not too put out about women being put back "in their rightful place",as they see it.
This is a really misogynist society and women were just getting a tiny voice they are mostly seen as second class citezens