"Discrimination" and escorts

[ladiesman217]

BTW just in case anyone from the anti-sex worker brigade happens to read this, I thought I'd add this for your benefit. My opinion and observations below regarding escorts is going off of the premise that they are independent sex workers, working off their own free will, not being coerced or forced in any way. That would be human trafficking, exploitation and is absolutely vile. But in order to help both the victims of human trafficking and those that engage in sex work out of their own free will, a distinction has got to be made between the two and laws drawn accordingly to act on both. Until such time as consensual sex work and human trafficking are distinguished from each other, i.e. they are not the same thing, then things will only ever get worse for both.
_______________

Over the years I've seen this being talked about quite a few times. And you know what? It scares me. Refusing to see things from an escorts' perspective. And no, I'm not writing this to gain favour with anyone. I'm not writing this to be a white knight. I'm writing it solely as a concern. You can tell me I'm bullshitting or whatever, quite frankly I couldn't care less. It's about time someone said it. I'm going to be using the word 'discriminate' a lot here, but just know that I use that word very VERY loosely.

Over the years, I have seen many clients here who think almost entirely with their dick and not their brain. And regrettably there's no end in sight for that, some men are just coded to think that way. Fortunately I'm the reverse, I do think with my brain and endeavour to act right as I see it. Whether that's looking at things from the perspective of others or otherwise.

So over the years, people have come here and claimed that an escort is discriminating against them for one reason or another (nationality, colour, etc etc etc). Yes, it is discrimination but it's not black and white discrimination. The sex industry is unlike any other industry in the world, whether it's selling in goods or services, i.e. supermarkets or dentists. And absolutely, in each and every one of those cases it would be outright discrimination and 100% wrong.

But this isn't a case like that. Sex work is all about sex. The thing that scares me which I mentioned above, is this. There is a mindset out there among some clients, a minority mind you. This mindset, is that because there is exchange of money involved, there are almost certain "expectations" or "entitlements" almost. To me, this is absolutely frightening. You are paying to spend X amount of time with an escort, and whatever happens during that time IS NOT UP TO YOU. It is up to the escort and the escort alone.

Now what does this have to do with discrimination? Well I'm getting onto that now. But first, let's leave the world of the sex industry for a moment. Hypothetical scenario: a couple of friends, women, are on a night out. A few lads come over, buy the girls a drink and 2 of them eventually end up going home together, just a one nighter thing. Few weeks later, the same girls are out on the town and are bought drinks from another few fellas. But no one goes home with anyone tonight. For one reason or another, the girls just didn't feel comfortable about potentially going home with one of these guys. Maybe he was a foreigner and she just wasn't comfortable with the idea of going back home with him because of this. Quite frankly it's not important, because it's her choice who she does or does not go home with.

Was she racist? Remember now, this is just a group of women on a night out. One week one girl chooses to go home with some guy. Another week she chooses not to with some other guy. Both guys were from different places. Talked different ways, etc. Is this racist? If a woman does not want to sex with someone for whatever reason, whether it's skin their colour, racial background, etc, is this racist? Nobody, man or woman, has got to explain to anyone why they do or do not want to engage in sex with someone else.

See where I'm going with this? Well I'll guide you along now.

Let's revert back to the sex industry now. I've seen over the years, a lot of clients either through their own ignorance or just purposely shove their heads in the sand. If you take away only one thing from what I've written here, then let it be this. As clients, we haven't a fucking clue what goes on behind the scenes. As clients, we haven't a fucking clue what an escort's average day is like. But like I said, it's all about sex. So let me ask you a question, and keep in mind my little hypothetical scenarios above. Just because there is money involved, why should an escort not be allowed the same right to turn away someone that they do not feel comfortable with? Why does this make him/her racist? Do you even stop to think for a moment how vulnerable an escort's working environment is? Letting complete strangers into their room, not knowing a thing about them? Yes, it is discrimination. But at the end of the day, it's sex. The fact that money is involved is completely irrelevant. This is not like any other industry. It is sex, pure and simple sex, age old since time immemorial sex, and the most important thing about sex is... consent.

So. All these people who claim that escorts are discriminating, racist even, because they don't see people of say certain nationalities, or whatever the case may be. Tell me, are they ageist too if they choose not to see say clients under 30 or over 60? Let's keep those 2 questions and apply it to our hypothetical scenario. If a group of women are out on the town one night, are they racist because they don't want to go home with someone from another country? Are they ageist because they don't want to go home with someone under 30 or over 60?

Of course it's not fucking racism. Take one more thing away from this, and that is that the most important thing is an escort's safety. If you do not get that then I don't want to even try and comprehend what kind of creature you are. If an escort, for whatever reason, does not feel comfortable or safe with people of certain backgrounds, then that is his/her right as a consenting human being. This industry is completely different to any other industry in the world. You cannot treat it the same. Just because you have money in your pocket does not grant you anything. If an escort does not feel comfortable with certain people for whatever reason, then leave without a fuss and find another escort who does. The idea that money somehow grants you automatic rights to see an escort is sickening. It is a man or woman's right to choose to engage in sexual activities with whosoever they wish, and it is equally their right to refuse same and is not answerable for that to anyone.

[Mij]

At worst it's racism, at best it's ignorance. A persons skin colour, age, nationality or religion is no indication of what kind of person they are. Treating someone differently based on physical characteristics or their passport cannot be justified. Treating someone differently based on their bad attitude is completely justified.

[StevieB1980]

BTW just in case anyone from the anti-sex worker brigade happens to read this, I thought I'd add this for your benefit. My opinion and observations below regarding escorts is going off of the premise that they are independent sex workers, working off their own free will, not being coerced or forced in any way. That would be human trafficking, exploitation and is absolutely vile. But in order to help both the victims of human trafficking and those that engage in sex work out of their own free will, a distinction has got to be made between the two and laws drawn accordingly to act on both. Until such time as consensual sex work and human trafficking are distinguished from each other, i.e. they are not the same thing, then things will only ever get worse for both.
_______________

Over the years I've seen this being talked about quite a few times. And you know what? It scares me. Refusing to see things from an escorts' perspective. And no, I'm not writing this to gain favour with anyone. I'm not writing this to be a white knight. I'm writing it solely as a concern. You can tell me I'm bullshitting or whatever, quite frankly I couldn't care less. It's about time someone said it. I'm going to be using the word 'discriminate' a lot here, but just know that I use that word very VERY loosely.

Over the years, I have seen many clients here who think almost entirely with their dick and not their brain. And regrettably there's no end in sight for that, some men are just coded to think that way. Fortunately I'm the reverse, I do think with my brain and endeavour to act right as I see it. Whether that's looking at things from the perspective of others or otherwise.

So over the years, people have come here and claimed that an escort is discriminating against them for one reason or another (nationality, colour, etc etc etc). Yes, it is discrimination but it's not black and white discrimination. The sex industry is unlike any other industry in the world, whether it's selling in goods or services, i.e. supermarkets or dentists. And absolutely, in each and every one of those cases it would be outright discrimination and 100% wrong.

But this isn't a case like that. Sex work is all about sex. The thing that scares me which I mentioned above, is this. There is a mindset out there among some clients, a minority mind you. This mindset, is that because there is exchange of money involved, there are almost certain "expectations" or "entitlements" almost. To me, this is absolutely frightening. You are paying to spend X amount of time with an escort, and whatever happens during that time IS NOT UP TO YOU. It is up to the escort and the escort alone.

Now what does this have to do with discrimination? Well I'm getting onto that now. But first, let's leave the world of the sex industry for a moment. Hypothetical scenario: a couple of friends, women, are on a night out. A few lads come over, buy the girls a drink and 2 of them eventually end up going home together, just a one nighter thing. Few weeks later, the same girls are out on the town and are bought drinks from another few fellas. But no one goes home with anyone tonight. For one reason or another, the girls just didn't feel comfortable about potentially going home with one of these guys. Maybe he was a foreigner and she just wasn't comfortable with the idea of going back home with him because of this. Quite frankly it's not important, because it's her choice who she does or does not go home with.

Was she racist? Remember now, this is just a group of women on a night out. One week one girl chooses to go home with some guy. Another week she chooses not to with some other guy. Both guys were from different places. Talked different ways, etc. Is this racist? If a woman does not want to sex with someone for whatever reason, whether it's skin their colour, racial background, etc, is this racist? Nobody, man or woman, has got to explain to anyone why they do or do not want to engage in sex with someone else.

See where I'm going with this? Well I'll guide you along now.

Let's revert back to the sex industry now. I've seen over the years, a lot of clients either through their own ignorance or just purposely shove their heads in the sand. If you take away only one thing from what I've written here, then let it be this. As clients, we haven't a fucking clue what goes on behind the scenes. As clients, we haven't a fucking clue what an escort's average day is like. But like I said, it's all about sex. So let me ask you a question, and keep in mind my little hypothetical scenarios above. Just because there is money involved, why should an escort not be allowed the same right to turn away someone that they do not feel comfortable with? Why does this make him/her racist? Do you even stop to think for a moment how vulnerable an escort's working environment is? Letting complete strangers into their room, not knowing a thing about them? Yes, it is discrimination. But at the end of the day, it's sex. The fact that money is involved is completely irrelevant. This is not like any other industry. It is sex, pure and simple sex, age old since time immemorial sex, and the most important thing about sex is... consent.

So. All these people who claim that escorts are discriminating, racist even, because they don't see people of say certain nationalities, or whatever the case may be. Tell me, are they ageist too if they choose not to see say clients under 30 or over 60? Let's keep those 2 questions and apply it to our hypothetical scenario. If a group of women are out on the town one night, are they racist because they don't want to go home with someone from another country? Are they ageist because they don't want to go home with someone under 30 or over 60?

Of course it's not fucking racism. Take one more thing away from this, and that is that the most important thing is an escort's safety. If you do not get that then I don't want to even try and comprehend what kind of creature you are. If an escort, for whatever reason, does not feel comfortable or safe with people of certain backgrounds, then that is his/her right as a consenting human being. This industry is completely different to any other industry in the world. You cannot treat it the same. Just because you have money in your pocket does not grant you anything. If an escort does not feel comfortable with certain people for whatever reason, then leave without a fuss and find another escort who does. The idea that money somehow grants you automatic rights to see an escort is sickening. It is a man or woman's right to choose to engage in sexual activities with whosoever they wish, and it is equally their right to refuse same and is not answerable for that to anyone.

Yes maybe they do refuse clients because of the ethnic background but probably more common that they refuse to see a client as they see him as a threat,that they are disrespectful,demanding unacceptable services or ones the lady doesn't provide or doesn't want to do with a particular client or that they just don't like him and get a bad vibe/gut feeling and refuse to continue with the appointment.
It is all about consent you are 100% correct there.

[Mr Sweet Guy]

Yes maybe they do refuse clients because of the ethnic background but probably more common that they refuse to see a client as they see him as a threat,that they are disrespectful,demanding unacceptable services or ones the lady doesn't provide or doesn't want to do with a particular client or that they just don't like him and get a bad vibe/gut feeling and refuse to continue with the appointment.
It is all about consent you are 100% correct there.

That exactly what it is Steve..... It should all about Consent. It the Lady choice on who she see and like , as it is a completely different industry to other business. It her life and feeling who she let walk in her door. She has a choice to have sex with client A and refuse to have sex with client B if she so wish to.....

Why should she be discriminated by that , it the Lady body and mind on what she like and comfortable to do..... Also agree it doesn't give us Gents the right to book a Lady for 30 min or overnight and demand anything from her...... But Consent is absolute paramount of who they are meeting , because if she not consenting to something then stop look and listen.....

I have said how many time here how important Consent is and to me also..... I have got mock and laugh at because ok I do say it too much..... We'll I rather annoy a Lady asking her consent then not asking at all , even if I ask the Lady too many time and annoy most that I met asking consent.....

But asking person consent is a must , but taking it by words is another thing..... You also got to take your own judgement into consideration..... Does she really mean it when she consent to what happen , that where our own consent judgement and conscience come into play..... Chat to her and read her body language to know if she consenting truly or not..... Everyone can give consent but knowing if it true or not that is another question....

Maybe I am punting to long , but it constant battle I have in every meeting I had with the professional Ladies (Escorts).... Doesn't matter if I met her 20 times it the same , as it end up annoying them asking consent constant.... Is that discrimination toward the Ladies I dunno , but could look like I am not comfortable with them.....

But at end of the day we absolute no right to discriminate the Ladies here , as it their preference and choice on who she decide to meet and see.... Lot of professional Ladies (Escorts) in London won't see certain ethnic background as some had bad experience with them.... As I have met some and they told me story of frightening encounter they had..... So they have the right to choose who they see , as lot of Ladies in London put it up on their ad profile and warn people on what clients and ethnic background they won't see on their advertisement..... So why should it be any different here in Ireland for the professional Ladies (Escorts)..... I have met few Ladies here who won't see certain ethnic background , but it her choice and reason not to.....

At the end of the day..... She can refuse any clients they so wish and we have to respect that to..... Money can pay for her time and companionship if she consent to meet us Gents.... But it certainly does not buy us right to demand or expect business sex from her , that alone has to be Consent from Lady first (and even client also .... That for me is not discrimination , it is free choice and consent to Lady conscience ..... Good Day.....

[MrLovelyLad]

That exactly what it is Steve..... It should all about Consent. It the Lady choice on who she see and like , as it is a completely different industry to other business. It her life and feeling who she let walk in her door. She has a choice to have sex with client A and refuse to have sex with client B if she so wish to.....

Why should she be discriminated by that , it the Lady body and mind on what she like and comfortable to do..... Also agree it doesn't give us Gents the right to book a Lady for 30 min or overnight and demand anything from her...... But Consent is absolute paramount of who they are meeting , because if she not consenting to something then stop look and listen.....

I have said how many time here how important Consent is and to me also..... I have got mock and laugh at because ok I do say it too much..... We'll I rather annoy a Lady asking her consent then not asking at all , even if I ask the Lady too many time and annoy most that I met asking consent.....

But asking person consent is a must , but taking it by words is another thing..... You also got to take your own judgement into consideration..... Does she really mean it when she consent to what happen , that where our own consent judgement and conscience come into play..... Chat to her and read her body language to know if she consenting truly or not..... Everyone can give consent but knowing if it true or not that is another question....

Maybe I am punting to long , but it constant battle I have in every meeting I had with the professional Ladies (Escorts).... Doesn't matter if I met her 20 times it the same , as it end up annoying them asking consent constant.... Is that discrimination toward the Ladies I dunno , but could look like I am not comfortable with them.....

But at end of the day we absolute no right to discriminate the Ladies here , as it their preference and choice on who she decide to meet and see.... Lot of professional Ladies (Escorts) in London won't see certain ethnic background as some had bad experience with them.... As I have met some and they told me story of frightening encounter they had..... So they have the right to choose who they see , as lot of Ladies in London put it up on their ad profile and warn people on what clients and ethnic background they won't see on their advertisement..... So why should it be any different here in Ireland for the professional Ladies (Escorts)..... I have met few Ladies here who won't see certain ethnic background , but it her choose and reason not to.....

At the end of the day..... She can refuse any clients they so wish and we have to respect that to..... Money can pay for her time and companionship if she consent to meet us Gents.... But it certainly does not buy us right to demand or expect business sex from her , that alone has to be Consent from Lady first (and even client also .... That for me is not discrimination , it is free choice and consent to Lady conscience ..... Good Day.....

I dunno. What has consent got to do with it?

[StevieB1980]

That exactly what it is Steve..... It should all about Consent. It the Lady choice on who she see and like , as it is a completely different industry to other business. It her life and feeling who she let walk in her door. She has a choice to have sex with client A and refuse to have sex with client B if she so wish to.....

Why should she be discriminated by that , it the Lady body and mind on what she like and comfortable to do..... Also agree it doesn't give us Gents the right to book a Lady for 30 min or overnight and demand anything from her...... But Consent is absolute paramount of who they are meeting , because if she not consenting to something then stop look and listen.....

I have said how many time here how important Consent is and to me also..... I have got mock and laugh at because ok I do say it too much..... We'll I rather annoy a Lady asking her consent then not asking at all , even if I ask the Lady too many time and annoy most that I met asking consent.....

But asking person consent is a must , but taking it by words is another thing..... You also got to take your own judgement into consideration..... Does she really mean it when she consent to what happen , that where our own consent judgement and conscience come into play..... Chat to her and read her body language to know if she consenting truly or not..... Everyone can give consent but knowing if it true or not that is another question....

Maybe I am punting to long , but it constant battle I have in every meeting I had with the professional Ladies (Escorts).... Doesn't matter if I met her 20 times it the same , as it end up annoying them asking consent constant.... Is that discrimination toward the Ladies I dunno , but could look like I am not comfortable with them.....

But at end of the day we absolute no right to discriminate the Ladies here , as it their preference and choice on who she decide to meet and see.... Lot of professional Ladies (Escorts) in London won't see certain ethnic background as some had bad experience with them.... As I have met some and they told me story of frightening encounter they had..... So they have the right to choose who they see , as lot of Ladies in London put it up on their ad profile and warn people on what clients and ethnic background they won't see on their advertisement..... So why should it be any different here in Ireland for the professional Ladies (Escorts)..... I have met few Ladies here who won't see certain ethnic background , but it her choice and reason not to.....

At the end of the day..... She can refuse any clients they so wish and we have to respect that to..... Money can pay for her time and companionship if she consent to meet us Gents.... But it certainly does not buy us right to demand or expect business sex from her , that alone has to be Consent from Lady first (and even client also .... That for me is not discrimination , it is free choice and consent to Lady conscience ..... Good Day.....

I think you may be over thinking the consent thing.
Once the escort has given consent and permission for the client to stay then no need to think about it any longer just time to enjoy the appointment.
I feel it may freak out and annoy the escort if you keep mentioning consent after she has given it.
Anyhow this is not the point of the thread so don't wish to go off topic however I would like to thank 'ladiesman217' for his observations and starting the thread.

[Mr Sweet Guy]

I dunno. What has consent got to do with it?

It to do with everything mate , if you ask your boss for few days off he or she got to give you their consent to say it ok I allow it..
It very important mate.... If the Lady not consenting then it class as rape and intimidation also...

[MidlifeCrisis]

LDM, the sermon of the day is usually too long for me, but I read this one because the subject interested me. I agree with it all, although I think your point would be made more effectively in about a quarter of the words!

The trouble is, like most of these things, those of us that read it don't need to be told - the ones that do have zero chance of reading it through.

[StevieB1980]

I dunno. What has consent got to do with it?

Consent has everything to do with it.
Just because you hand over your money doesn't imply the lady has given consent for you to stay.
If she isn't happy she will hand the money back and ask you to leave which is exactly what you should do.
Treat an escort with dignity,respect their wishes always and you will be fine.

[Mr Sweet Guy]

I think you may be over thinking the consent thing.
Once the escort has given consent and permission for the client to stay then no need to think about it any longer just time to enjoy the appointment.
I feel it may freak out and annoy the escort if you keep mentioning consent after she has given it.
Anyhow this is not the point of the thread so don't wish to go off topic however I would like to thank 'ladiesman217' for his observations and starting the thread.

Thanks mate and can you come with me on my next visit to a Lady and hide in wardrobe
It be 2-3 hours booking , so I will throw in few cans of beer and popcorn to.... With lollipop also after with your fee to
But yes it certainly does annoy all Ladies met if I being truthful , maybe it is discrimination on the Ladies also asking consent to many time. Never look like that hmmmm....

Yes it a very good valid and interesting thread he put up and one that is should be taken seriously also.... Three words is important of all in meeting professional Ladies (Escorts) Which is the words Yes and No and Consent.....