How the Celtic tiger lost its roar

[Quarterpoundher]

It's the banks and people that got too greedy. They have themselves to blame for it by living a millionaires lifestyle with money they didn't have.

Exactly Highway.

The amount of times I heard people say “sur its only a few hundred thousand” like it was nothing and these were ordinary enough joes, not big business people by any means. People lost sight of the value of money and also its fickleness. Hard to blame the young generation that became adults when the Celtic moggy was in full swing as they had no real reference point as to what is value for money or in thinking that it would ever end but they are sure paying for that now and will be for the duration of maybe 40, 50 years paying for houses that were never worth what was being charged for them and will never attain an equal price ever again as what happened in the last 15 years was a once off. Things will pick up as they always do but never to the level of madness that ruled for the last decade so this generation is saddled with a huge financial hangover that will far outlast the party and those bankers that literally threw money at people should be sacked.

[thehighwayman]

They should be sacked of course. And some jailed. The bonuses some of them got was ridiculous.

[anitasizzle]

We talked the celtic tiger up on the back of a speculative property bubble and we're now just talking it back down again. No bubble is ever sustainable in the long run and the correction will have to take us back to where the economy would have been without this OTT speculation. Given that the tiger had a life-span of about 15 years, we may have a long way to go yet, but at least it looks like we could hit rock bottom rapidly.

Unfortunately the celtic tiger years have left us with massive private debt and are also now going to land us with massive public debt, a high cost base and uncompetitiveness.

You can ignore the message and shoot the messanger if you wish but that is not going to solve our problems......and a country that is going to maybe take in €34bn in tax revenues and spend some €58bn this year has a big problem. The head in the sand strategy was tried already by the politicians, bankers, developers, economists and most of the media pundits and it did'nt work. But at least the public sector and their unions can still find some solace in cloud cuckoo land....but for how much longer?

It says a lot about the state of governance here, when an escort called Anita (who earns her living via "private donations") makes more sense then some of the clowns who sup from the public purse (That's public and not pubic brothers ).

Thanks, Carlos, and thanks to my many Irish benefactors, who through their 'private donations' enabled me to purchase lots of books and periodicals


P.S. someone really tell the 'Poles' to read Sir Thomas Moore's ''Utopia'' or Voltaire's
''Candide'' before they make the LEAP

[Quarterpoundher]

Precisely. I remember being 'flushed with cash' a couple of years back, and being made fun of, considered stupid, and laughed at because I didn't let the money get to my head-they didn't understand it wasn't going to last very long.

Yip I got that a lot but not because I was flush but in fact the opposite and did not run to the bank manager for a 100% morgage for a house to big for me.

You never miss the water till the well runs dry..

[anitasizzle]

Yip I got that a lot but not because I was flush but in fact the opposite and did not run to the bank manager for a 100% morgage for a house to big for me.

You never miss the water till the well runs dry..

Me either, there was something unappealing about buying a house that 40%-60% over-valued.

[Quarterpoundher]

Me either, there was something unappealing about buying a house that 40%-60% over-valued.

Not just over valued Anita but a complete rip off into the bargain. I was a builders laborer for a while and the shortcuts and poor workmanship that went on at the height of the building boom was frightening. They just threw up houses rather then build them.

Houses built far to soon on reclaimed ground that over time will start to crack as the ground settles.

House’s painted as soon as the plaster was dry enough to take a coat of paint which will lead to dampness problems down the road.

Poor quality cement blocks that were only ever meant to be used as boundary garden walls instead used as load baring block work in the house as they were cheaper.

Poorer and therefore cheaper sand and cement used that is not as strong as what should have been used.

I can see loads of problems coming to the fore in the future as these shortcuts manifest themselves so to add insult to injury these people not only paid way over the odds but were also sold inferior house’s that in some cases could be dangerous in a few years.

[Finbar]

I can see where your coming from saying this, but I think it has to be said, the majority of these people are producing quality products, many certified for 10 years by Homebond and other organisations. I too have worked on many buidling sites during the past few years and have never witnessed what your claiming.

Before you say anything, I'm not a builder, but I take my hat off to these guys. Many of them came from nothing and excluding maybe 2005-07 there was still major risks involved in financing building, these guys saw an opportunity and put their money where their mouth is.

The way I see it is that the problems at present can be attributed to legislation and Government involvement.

[Finbar]

This is a story of how not to become a developer. A chap won the lottery in 2001. He hails from a town of 3,500 people. His brother had just set up a building business. Before setting up a building business he was a t.v repair man. After the chap won he decided to invest in his brothers business and bought a plot of land for a housing development. So they get started with the development in 2002. They build 80 houses. The houses are finally completed over 5 years later in 2007. Before you ask how did it take so long to develop the houses I’ll tell you next. The following reasons.

1: They forgot to register the development with the land registry.
2: They assumed the sewerage development in the town would run by the development at the top when infact it ran by the bottom of the development which delayed the project.
3: The Monday Club. All the workers didn’t work on a Monday and drank in a pub on the Monday and did sing alongs in a certain pub all day Monday.
4. 10-11 was breakfast and 1-2 was dinner.
5. When the weather was great all the workers would go and walk off site to play golf.
6. The developer(t.v repair man) hired a member of the family to be the foreman.
7. The develepor (t.v repair man)was playing golf 7 days a week, and drinking in a certain pub 7 nights a week and was rarely on site.

You get the picture. In the height of the boom they bought an ex-boarding school and the land that came with it to develop. Recently they have applied to build a hotel, an old folks home and an 18 hole golf course. A Hotel with a population in the area of 3500 is absolute madness. The old folks home makes sense as the population is getting older but another golf course. Anyway rumours are circulating that the developer in question owes the banks €18 million. He has told the banks the only way they’ll get their money back is if they give him the money for the new development. Just one question for the pinsters would the banks be that stupid in the current climate to give the developer more money?

I copied this from a different website. Thought it was kind of funny, maybe this is the crowd you worked for?

[luther]

I can see where your coming from saying this, but I think it has to be said, the majority of these people are producing quality products, many certified for 10 years by Homebond and other organisations. I too have worked on many buidling sites during the past few years and have never witnessed what your claiming.

Before you say anything, I'm not a builder, but I take my hat off to these guys. Many of them came from nothing and excluding maybe 2005-07 there was still major risks involved in financing building, these guys saw an opportunity and put their money where their mouth is.

The way I see it is that the problems at present can be attributed to legislation and Government involvement.

I think you'll find that was our money........

Or at least we're the ones making the repayments now..........

[sam07]

where it went wrong, why it went wrong? i'm not sure but unfortunately i never made alot from the tiger but i always had enough. i was too tight to buy a house because i realised they are over valued and need to half in price to get back to normal. the property boom caused about 15yrs work which got done in 5yrs cause people just got too greedy. maybe a cap should have been put on non nationals, a visa system like other countries. the meltdown in the US has a knock on effect on every country worldwide, i,ve lost my job 3 weeks ago without any notice just shut down, and here i am spending time on escort ireland to pass the time and look at the lovely ladies i cant have.. well maybe some. Also i'm not paying tax but am taking from the government which no one had taking into account there losing on the double from everyone out of work. these are my views may not be right just an opinion.