Kate McGrew. Excellent on RTE.

[bestie]

She done well did kate but always spoke well and knew her stuff but who's going to take a Working Girl serious, its in one ear and out the other with them lot unfortunately

[annabel taylor]

She done well did kate but always spoke well and knew her stuff but who's going to take a Working Girl serious, its in one ear and out the other with them lot unfortunately

You find the texts form listener everyone in fact was not in favour of this law
So the theroy most think its great not set in stone form many different media sources comments have been againist and rte radio is a station aimed at middle ireland the section u claimed before want this law pushed
Well go on there facebook twitter and listen to the texts read on nobody was in favour furthermore nobody sympathised with mia the walking rape victim

The garda text hugely important about the numbers trained to deal with this

[JAMESCORK]

Have heard up to the first ad break... I do not agree Kate was excellent... I'm sorry but I find her weak lacking positive purpose...

I'll listen more later...

she just a bit over excited
U need kids gloves with these people but also take a stronger stance
All very wishy washy for a debate

Unfortunately I haven't heard this interview but Kate was on Newstalk last week and she did very well.

Perhaps a some media training with the right PR company would help her to deliver more polished performance.

You could always be cogent and incisive.
Do some television interviews to put across a client's perspective.
Probably best not to be overly critical of one of the very, very, very............. very few to put their head above the parapet.
She's probably got more balls than all the males here put together.

I agree she has balls... I am not taking that from her at all. I applaud her efforts and always have. But I feel this was another opportunity lost. Yeah, I would love to speak out publicly but I do not have the balls, as thanks to society and stigma my life would be dramatically changed if I were to do so.

I have now listened to the entire programme, and here are my thoughts.

Why is this law being considered in the first place? It is because common public perception of this industry is one of coercion, trafficking and mistreatment of vulnerable naive women. Every experienced punter here knows that this is not the case. Every escort here knows that this is not the case. There are minuscule to negligible examples or cases of coercion or abuse. I am not saying it doesn't exist but I am saying its in the very low percentages. The public are again and again being fed "facts" based on "research" that 95% of women working in this industry are doing so against their will. Last Thursday, when the amendment was being voted on, minister Fitzgerald stated these statistics and it went unchallenged. Its no wonder Joe public will support this bill, thinking that hundreds of girls are being forced, raped and abused here in Ireland on a daily basis. But they are not!!! The stats are the other way around. In fact I'd dispute that even 5% are being abused or coerced on a daily basis, but I don't know, as my knowledge of this industry lies only here, and I do not have any knowledge of what happens on the streets.

The program started well with interviews with a punter and a TS escort. All sounded well and safe and normal. Then we have Mia de Faoite's main argument being that the vast majority of escorts/prostitutes are coerced/trafficked, and this new law will fix all that... same ol' same ol'... Kate's main and ONLY argument was the lack of support or fear of asking for support from the Gardai when this law is enforced. Thats all fine Kate, but how often or how many girls actually have looked for or need the Gardai to date. I feel the way you constantly put forward this argument made it sound that escorting is so dangerous that the girls are often in need of Garda help! This paints a bleak picture endorsing public opinion that the industry is dangerous and seedy.

Mia de Faoite at one stage stated "The sex industry is a place where rape and in some cases murder thrives". Does it thrive!? This went unchallenged. She also stated that there is "a small group of between 5 to 8% that are happy to be there, they dont want this law, but this law is for the vast majority who are addicted, trapped, coerced.... all research points to the 90%... " This also went unchallenged!

Kate was asked directly "how satisfied are you that the sex workers you represent are not exploited, are not trafficked?".. This was the six million dollar question. Kate answered by saying... "what is important and frustrating is the escalating danger and it is with the worst cases that we are concerned...". She didn't answer the question, but yet continued to paint a bleak picture of danger. It was nearly as if she was avoiding the question altogether.

Kate seemed to concentrate on the fact that the law will make the industry go underground. Whereas I can see what she is trying to say I feel using language like "making a very vulnerable community more desperate" send out the wrong signals. She did not at any time assure the public that the industry is not as dark as is perceived, and for this reason I think it did not go as well as one would have hoped.

[Patt113]

Unfortunately, a relevant point continues to get lost in this so-called debate (from the public's point of view):

There is already legislation to tackle trafficking and the proposed new law doesn't change that.
(Furthermore, the Dept of Justice stats on trafficking prosecutions suggest that the numbers trafficked, for any purpose, is somewhat lower than the public imagine.)

[doodlebug]

James at least you admit you don't have the balls to go on air and I applaud your honesty. Your analysis asks why is this law being considered, the simple answer is it is a quick win for a government that cannot act on its own so it chooses a subject that few politicians or the public will object to. As has been stated to death previously there are strict anti trafficking laws in place, there are laws about abuse, rape and murder so how does making the purchase of sex illegal enhance these laws, it doesn't, however it does look like the gov are doing something.

In relation to Kate being asked about how satisfied the sex workers she represents are to be working and her reply, I suspect, and if Kate wishes to correct me so be it, but I suspect she answered as she did because she did not want to be dishonest and pull out a statistic that she cannot stand over because she hasn't asked the workers she is representing.

In relation to the language she uses it is an attempt to meet the opposition on their own terms linguistically, public sympathy will be with a vulnerable community that is actually being made more desperate by this repressive political law. You and I both know that the industry is not as dark as percieved but a 17 min radio segment is not going to change public perceptions formed over hundreds of years, so to consume the elephant one bite at a time, you try and prevent the law being passed, you normalise the perception and then you work towards regulation and legalisation.

There are a few of the sex workers on this forum who have raised their head above the parapet and they deserve great credit, I and others in my position are not prepared to do that so, maybe a little bit less critical and have a thought about what, if anything we can do outside of posting on the forums.

Only my thoughts

[Rachel Divine]

Even tho public do not believe it, if it is being told again and again, they will believe it.

The majority of escorts are happy and willing to be in this business. Is what I always said and will always do.

People should hear that escorts went to Ruhama seeking information/help to exit and none was giving. Which is true, yet not many knows about it, but they should.

As about escorts being addicted to drugs, drink etc ... well, Irish people drink like fish and smoke weed. To look down on escorts is silly. On another note, I am yet to hear about an escort who is working to feed her addiction/s..

I assume the law purpose will be no client, no work, girls will park and move to another country, including those ''poor trafficked girls''. Now, will that happen? No. For example drink & drive is an offence, you lose the license, go on the record, yet people do it. Did the law stopped them? No.

[jessicabp]

I had a meeting with D. from the Swai.

The all story is on the wrong way - in my eyes.
Because if the government want to protect the Irish family and the Irish country:
- makes illegal working for the girl , who has not registration and blood test
- makes illegal working for the girl , who doesn't pay tax
- makes illegal working for the girl , who can not speak English ---> can not be independent !

May I ask how can a new Hungarian escort be independent, if doesn't speak any English ?
How she can book an apartement (we know, she can not open the accommodation before the registration ---> she needs an Irish phone number for the registration) ?
How she can make registration on this complicate website ?

[bestie]

You find the texts form listener everyone in fact was not in favour of this law
So the theroy most think its great not set in stone form many different media sources comments have been againist and rte radio is a station aimed at middle ireland the section u claimed before want this law pushed
Well go on there facebook twitter and listen to the texts read on nobody was in favour furthermore nobody sympathised with mia the walking rape victim

The garda text hugely important about the numbers trained to deal with this

but this law is not solely about criminalising clients paying for sex, this is only part of it, there is more to it that most do agree with

[bollocks]

You can not criticise Kate, when she is trying to do what no other client or escort is prepared to do.

Those of us who were lucky enough to have met Kate in private, or acting on the stage, will appreciate her best efforts.

Thank you Kate for trying.

[lapd]

I had a meeting with D. from the Swai.

The all story is on the wrong way - in my eyes.
Because if the government want to protect the Irish family and the Irish country:
- makes illegal working for the girl , who has not registration and blood test
- makes illegal working for the girl , who doesn't pay tax
- makes illegal working for the girl , who can not speak English ---> can not be independent !

May I ask how can a new Hungarian escort be independent, if doesn't speak any English ?
How she can book an apartement (we know, she can not open the accommodation before the registration ---> she needs an Irish phone number for the registration) ?
How she can make registration on this complicate website ?

Not often I disagree with you Jessica, but I think the law is only trying to stop people being forced into this work. The gangs who make a fortune from the "sex " industry , and they are nasty and not at all Irish, in the US the gangs are branding the girls!! like slaves used too, but it is a tattoo rather than a branding iron.
If escorting was made legal, what difference would that make?? it is legal to buy fuel, cigarettes, drink down here yet gangs make millions smuggling these thing in. All it would do is make sex cheaper and more dangerous. If a girl has to pay tax, rent, and do returns, then no more cash in hand, all documented, no more millions for this site, adds are free in some newspapers. You honestly think this would happen, way too much money being made under the radar.
As well some of the so called " brothels" being raided are in housing estates, or apartment blocks where families live, would you like to buy a house for 400k and have a half-way house for sex offenders next door ?, the reason for raids, are police being asked by locals because of noise, all kinds of weirdos around at all hours, these people could not give a damn if it was not affecting there happiness and right to live in peace, without worry.