Prostitution exposé on RTE tomorrow night.

[Curvaceous Kate]

I watched the programme, and some was extremely disturbing. But its a crazy situation where these guys operate in the open, moving girls around like animals by convoy of cars. If the Garda wanted to act, all they'd have to do is have high visibility and stop and question drivers etc. But maybe that's too simplistic. Interesting that the Swedish model requires loads of surveillance, and I don't see that resource being available here somehow.......

This is the bit that I find confusing. They seem to be assuming anyone who moves about is pimped or trafficked, but I know many Independent that do travel. I noticed one of the ladies going into the brothel on Dominic Street had a little dog with her. I didn't know pimps were so nice as to let ladies keep pets while working for then, or maybe there is another explanation for how the work is happening?

A lot of the stats they collated for this information is being used to make assumptions and surmising that a stat means something is not fact. Yet they are conveying that message as if it IS fact and that is misleading.

[Lucy Chambers]

The last time I suggested that this was not really safe for the lady I was called racist.

I don't entirely agree. I believe as long as the lady knows why she is in Ireland and what the work entails, she is still able to consent. I am more concerned that where there is a third person present and representing that person, they may offer services that the lady/gent is not willing to do and therefore give consent that does not exist.

It is a grey area at best.

If the lady has no English then of course there is a third party representing her, who answers the phone if not?

[Prickly]

I watched the programme, and some was extremely disturbing. But its a crazy situation where these guys operate in the open, moving girls around like animals by convoy of cars. If the Garda wanted to act, all they'd have to do is have high visibility and stop and question drivers etc. But maybe that's too simplistic. Interesting that the Swedish model requires loads of surveillance, and I don't see that resource being available here somehow.......

I don't think these people are any way intimidated by the Gardaí. One woman was taken directly from a brothel to court and back again under the noses of the Gardaí. They don't give a toss.
The simple fact is we have fed these gangs hard cash for years and the problem grew to the point where weak politicians are being forced into desperate measures. The question is will they leave independent escorts alone?

[Meursault]

This is the bit that I find confusing. They seem to be assuming anyone who moves about is pimped or trafficked, but I know many Independent that do travel. I noticed one of the ladies going into the brothel on Dominic Street had a little dog with her. I didn't know pimps were so nice as to let ladies keep pets while working for then, or maybe there is another explanation for how the work is happening?

A lot of the stats they collated for this information is being used to make assumptions and surmising that a stat means something is not fact. Yet they are conveying that message as if it IS fact and that is misleading.

[philipkntz]

I've just watched it and have to say that its the best program that Rte have done on criminal involvement in prostitution in Ireland.
I've never had any doubt that this side of the industry existed but I've always tried to avoid non consensual encounters.
What I don't understand is how the state broadcaster can gather all this evidence of criminality and not pass it to the Gardai instead of saving it for their veiwers.

[annabel taylor]

This is the bit that I find confusing. They seem to be assuming anyone who moves about is pimped or trafficked, but I know many Independent that do travel. I noticed one of the ladies going into the brothel on Dominic Street had a little dog with her. I didn't know pimps were so nice as to let ladies keep pets while working for then, or maybe there is another explanation for how the work is happening?

A lot of the stats they collated for this information is being used to make assumptions and surmising that a stat means something is not fact. Yet they are conveying that message as if it IS fact and that is misleading.

Dog offering watersports obviously

He even had his little pimp coat on

[Curvaceous Kate]

I don't think these people are any way intimidated by the Gardaí. One woman was taken directly from a brothel to court and back again under the noses of the Gardaí. They don't give a toss.
The simple fact is we have fed these gangs hard cash for years and the problem grew to the point where weak politicians are being forced into desperate measures. The question is will they leave independent escorts alone?

I don't really see it in the same light for some reason. Two of the women that had a chance to go home and move on when their pimps were prosecuted went and found another agency to work for or worked by themselves and stayed in Ireland. Why would they do that unless they wanted to stay working? Isn't this about consent at the end of the day?

[Stella]

I don't really see it in the same light for some reason. Two of the women that had a chance to go home and move on when their pimps were prosecuted went and found another agency to work for or worked by themselves and stayed in Ireland. Why would they do that unless they wanted to stay working? Isn't this about consent at the end of the day?

Plus I think it was the Romanian police officer who said even with these conditions, whatever it means they earn more than back home, and able to help their families...

[Red and Horny]

If the lady has no English then of course there is a third party representing her, who answers the phone if not?

She could have another lady friend with better english answering the phone for her i suppose. It happens.

[Curvaceous Kate]

Plus I think it was the Romanian police officer who said even with these conditions, whatever it means they earn more than back home, and able to help their families...

I spoke to a client recently who seems to be quite a prolific booker of young foreign ladies. He said he met with one young lady who was 19 and unbeknownst to him pregnant when they first met. She had her baby and then came back over to work intermittently to support her family. Now I think that is going to be hard for anyone to do and if there were other choices, then maybe she would take them, but... is it not better to be able to survive, to not starve and to be able to support your family doing something you are able to do, than to have no choice at all?

In an ideal world countries would not be struggling financially and there would be more choices, but most of us are in the same boat to some degree and it affects everyone, not just underprivileged people. We're all having to think on our feet and use our assets the best we can. It still doesn't mean we can't give consent and the fact that they work together while having English as a second language, means that they are not totally isolated and can speak in their Mother tongue when not working. You also learn a second language a damn site quicker when living in that country, so it isn't a permanent problem and would get easier.

The answer for me is to enforce harsher penalties on those that are abusing others and taking them against their will. Anyone working without consent needs to be protected and freed from their situation. People that are working willfully and with consent should be able to do so without fear and again the new law does not ensure that. The focus is all wrong.

Finally the rate for some of these girls sounds dreadfully low, especially for those of us that deal with sterling, but the euro has a different value in different countries and in some it stretches a lot further and it's value a lot higher. This all needs to be taken into account. If you come from a country were 300e a month is a fair wage, then all of a sudden 50e for half an hour seems a lot more reasonable. (I'm not sure that is correct, but using it as an example).