Bill to criminalise clients will be published tomorrow

[Zealot7]

The Gardai can, do and have entered many ladies apartments and hotel rooms unannounced.
There are laws to punish landlords, they could be charged with running a brothel.
Phones and computers have been confiscated by Gardai from ladies.

I called a lady and was given directions to a room. I remember thinking it was odd that the lady sounded Irish.
The door was opened, the usual someone hiding behind the door. It was the Gardai.
They took my name and address, were very polite to be but two of them were shouting and some poor girl.
They sent me on my way. I felt sorry for her.
What's to stop them using a lady's phone.

They got a female Garda to walk the streets in Limerick some time back.
Anyone who approached her was arrested.

Nothing stopping them doing similar again.
Nothing stopping them running an advert here.

We need to accurately know what proof is required in court for a conviction.
Without this punting is a risk

I know Brothel raids do go on and will continue, but is there an example where an escort has been arrested for working on her own? Or where she's had the authorities burst in on her completely unannounced? There is at least probable cause needed to burst in unannounced into an apartment/hotel room is there not?

You're right about the authorities running an advert here, yes there is nothing to stop them. But! You really should have your wits about you with whom you pick and choose to see. Going to a lady who's been around for a while with a number of reviews is a good way to get around most scammers or those with inaccurate photos etc. It's the same here and really fake profiles are honestly very easy to spot.

The burden of proof is very high and unlikely to stand up in court. I'd be more worried about a system of on the spot fines or something, taking everyone to court kind of really does make the thing unworkable from the start. Even from a logistics point of view, it means the number of fines issues is going to be minuscule, if there's any issued at all.

...and to be honest, punting given the illicit and stigmatized nature of it is always a bit of a risk anyway. It's a bit more of a risk now mind you, but given the nigh on impossible nature of policing it, it's not going to be enough to stop me.

Really, I keep going by the North, nothing has changed there thus far. In fact, just going by the numbers in Belfast recently compared to earlier, I'd be asking "What Law?".

Time will tell of course, but no attempt to eradicate sex work in history has ever been successful, our hopelessly incompetent Government won't break that trend.

[ladiesman217]

http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/theothe...stitution-law/ it's pretty interesting swedes are criticising the law seemingly some mental feminist bitch wants to have sex workers children taken away from them and increase imprisonment to over a year and there finally seeing sense now becuase of her mental views ,pretty rich how they call themselves feminists when its clear they actually hate good looking indepdent women making a very good living and miserable jealous hags and want them to suffer violence and humiliation from musllim pimps and treat them as second class citzens feminists my fucking arse there worse than the pimps and sex traffickers

That reminds me of a sickening moment some years back. Some of you will remember better than me. A mother was working as a sex worker. Had her children taken away from her because it was deemed she was unfit to be a mother simply because she was a prostitute. Kids handed over to the father who later murdered them.

[TonyB]

I know Brothel raids do go on and will continue, but is there an example where an escort has been arrested for working on her own? Or where she's had the authorities burst in on her completely unannounced? There is at least probable cause needed to burst in unannounced into an apartment/hotel room is there not?

You're right about the authorities running an advert here, yes there is nothing to stop them. But! You really should have your wits about you with whom you pick and choose to see. Going to a lady who's been around for a while with a number of reviews is a good way to get around most scammers or those with inaccurate photos etc. It's the same here and really fake profiles are honestly very easy to spot.

The burden of proof is very high and unlikely to stand up in court. I'd be more worried about a system of on the spot fines or something, taking everyone to court kind of really does make the thing unworkable from the start. Even from a logistics point of view, it means the number of fines issues is going to be minuscule, if there's any issued at all.

...and to be honest, punting given the illicit and stigmatized nature of it is always a bit of a risk anyway. It's a bit more of a risk now mind you, but given the nigh on impossible nature of policing it, it's not going to be enough to stop me.

Really, I keep going by the North, nothing has changed there thus far. In fact, just going by the numbers in Belfast recently compared to earlier, I'd be asking "What Law?".

Time will tell of course, but no attempt to eradicate sex work in history has ever been successful, our hopelessly incompetent Government won't break that trend.

Working on her own.
Sticking to reliable, reviewed escorts will in time kill the business.
New ladies are required for obvious reasons, and it can't be guaranteed they are all independent and not hassled by the Gardai.

Advertising and wits
Again you can't keep visiting the same safe ladies as eventually this will kill the business.

Burden of proof
I want it as fact not opinion what the burden of proof is.
I want to know what I can do and what I should and shouldn't say.
I want all of us to know this as fact and not hearsay or opinion.

Currently punting isn't illegal for clients.

The North isn't here. Here the Gardai are pretty much clowns politically motivated.
There is no common sense to it.

Synopsis
I'm not arguing with you.
I'm saying we need facts.
We need plausible reasons not to be prosecuted.

I'm not convinced the burden of proof is that high.
You leave an escorts apartment, advertising on an escort site, where sexual services are advertised.
It doesn't take much imagination.
I don't believe the Gardai need photographs of payment or of the used condom.

Picture Francis Fitzgerald as the judge.
No matter what you'd say, you'd be fucked

[FetishCherry]

Working on her own.
Sticking to reliable, reviewed escorts will in time kill the business.
New ladies are required for obvious reasons, and it can't be guaranteed they are all independent and not hassled by the Gardai.

Advertising and wits
Again you can't keep visiting the same safe ladies as eventually this will kill the business.

Burden of proof
I want it as fact not opinion what the burden of proof is.
I want to know what I can do and what I should and shouldn't say.
I want all of us to know this as fact and not hearsay or opinion.

Currently punting isn't illegal for clients.

The North isn't here. Here the Gardai are pretty much clowns politically motivated.
There is no common sense to it.

Synopsis
I'm not arguing with you.
I'm saying we need facts.
We need plausible reasons not to be prosecuted.

I'm not convinced the burden of proof is that high.
You leave an escorts apartment, advertising on an escort site, where sexual services are advertised.
It doesn't take much imagination.
I don't believe the Gardai need photographs of payment or of the used condom.

Picture Francis Fitzgerald as the judge.
No matter what you'd say, you'd be fucked

this remind me of this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEwXZmxPWm4

[Walshie]

this remind me of this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEwXZmxPWm4

Enda kenny is talking about stepping down at the next election and Francis Fitzgerald wants his job, God help us all. She's incompetence personified

[Zealot7]

Working on her own.
Sticking to reliable, reviewed escorts will in time kill the business.
New ladies are required for obvious reasons, and it can't be guaranteed they are all independent and not hassled by the Gardai.
Synopsis
I'm not arguing with you.
I'm saying we need facts.
We need plausible reasons not to be prosecuted.

Oh I agree, and I'm not seeking an argument either. However I am of the opinion that most people on the board are giving the authorities too much credit here. This law hasn't been successful anywhere else it's been used. There are more ladies in Sweden working today than there were when this stupid law was brought in. That's a known fact, and here will be no different.

I'm not convinced the burden of proof is that high.
You leave an escorts apartment, advertising on an escort site, where sexual services are advertised.
It doesn't take much imagination.
I don't believe the Gardai need photographs of payment or of the used condom.

Really? This a bit of a stretch too far.

I know all locations are not ideal, but in a busy city centre apartment block with 30/40/50 or even 100+ apartments in the one building, how is anyone going to know which apartment you went to? Remember, they've no capability to listen in to the phone calls or pull someones identity from a number, so they can't know. Then factor in that you've got a steady stream of people coming and going from locations like that. What are they going to do? Patrol the hallways of all the apartment blocks? Busy hotels would be the same.

I know you could probably say that people going to the door of the block with a phone to their ear stand out. But how abnormal is that really? I live in an apartment complex myself, and the key entry system has always been dodgy, I have to get people to ring me when they're outside too. If you're paranoid, a bluetooth headset is a good idea there too.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say in this thread. I'm getting kind of excited planning my next punt now.

[TonyB]

Oh I agree, and I'm not seeking an argument either. However I am of the opinion that most people on the board are giving the authorities too much credit here. This law hasn't been successful anywhere else it's been used. There are more ladies in Sweden working today than there were when this stupid law was brought in. That's a known fact, and here will be no different.


Really? This a bit of a stretch too far.

I know all locations are not ideal, but in a busy city centre apartment block with 30/40/50 or even 100+ apartments in the one building, how is anyone going to know which apartment you went to? Remember, they've no capability to listen in to the phone calls or pull someones identity from a number, so they can't know. Then factor in that you've got a steady stream of people coming and going from locations like that. What are they going to do? Patrol the hallways of all the apartment blocks? Busy hotels would be the same.

I know you could probably say that people going to the door of the block with a phone to their ear stand out. But how abnormal is that really? I live in an apartment complex myself, and the key entry system has always been dodgy, I have to get people to ring me when they're outside too. If you're paranoid, a bluetooth headset is a good idea there too.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say in this thread. I'm getting kind of excited planning my next punt now.

I really hope you are right.
But I'll have my excuses / defense ready just in case.

I couldn't give a toss about a fine, but being listed on a sex offenders register wouldn't interest me.

[Genie in a Bottle]

What is E-I views on all this?

[nonpareil]

Enda kenny is talking about stepping down at the next election and Francis Fitzgerald wants his job, God help us all. She's incompetence personified

I was thinking of posting that for the last couple of days.She hasn't confirmed or denied her ambition to succeed Kenny but it's likely.
Varadkar and Coveney are also expected to be in the mix.Youth might trump Frances' s possible slight advantage of being a woman.

[LazarusRisen]

I really hope you are right.
But I'll have my excuses / defense ready just in case.

I couldn't give a toss about a fine, but being listed on a sex offenders register wouldn't interest me.

To echo TonyB's posts, it'd be super if someone with a legal background could clarify a couple of the issues surrounding this bill/law. Specifically, what info would you have to give to the gardai if they collared you outside an escort's apartment and what grounds they'd need to have to stop/question you in the first place. I believe it to be the case that the gardai can't just stop you without probable cause - but they'd only have to phone the station with an 'anonymous' tip-off to cover that base. I equally appreciate where Zealot is coming from, but I for one can't afford your bravado. A public naming (shaming) or, worse still, an appearance on an offenders list would certainly lead to divorce (it's probably heading that way anyway, tbh, so maybe not the worst outcome) but would also lead to the loss of my livelihood. I'm considering giving up this lark altogether, but the prospect of never seeing my absolute favourite escort again is equally frightening!