Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Compare facts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Belfast, lap of luxury
    Posts
    14,857
    Blog Entries
    18

    Cop Compare facts

    I can see that some people here are completely freaking out with the law change. Some of you are feeling resentment, some of you are just plain scared, while others are going to give up and some play safe with who they already know.

    I thought that maybe if you had some facts you might get a better perspective on the reality and then you can make a more informed decision on what you want to do and hopefully stop feeling resentment towards the sex workers for not being made criminals, as believe me, it is no walk in the park for us either.

    So... let's start with comparing Sweden with Northern Ireland.

    In 1999 when the law was introduced the population of Sweden was 8.858. While Northern Ireland in 2014 is 1.8 million. That is over 4 times smaller than Sweden.

    In the first year there were 94 reports and 11 people were prosecuted or given 'wavered prosecutions', which meant they had to go on an adult caution scheme (no prison).

    That is with a population of 8.58 million

    In 2011 it was recorded a population 9.5 million in Sweden, so nearly 5 times more than Northern Ireland. 12 years after the law came in to place the reports have increased predominantly, with a record of 765 reportings and a total of 445 prosecutions and wavered prosecutions, which comparable would translate to approx 89 for Northern Ireland.

    There is no record of anyone going to prison.

    You also need to take into account that the methods used in Sweden are not all accessible to the PSNI, along with the resources or the man power.

    It's not great, but Northern Ireland is not Sweden. Yes there will be some people reported, but they will be the ones that don't know what they are doing, let their guard down or don't try to play safe. If you are careful and plan properly, don't act on impulse so much and try to make sure you know where you're going you should be okay. They don't have the money to go after everyone, they are going to concentrate on the nuisance calls, the over used and less discrete and leave the rest of us to get on with our work in peace.
    Last edited by CurvaceousKate; 25-05-15 at 17:57.

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Curvaceous Kate For This Useful Post:

    Catriona (25-05-15), Davidontour (25-05-15), irishdeltaforce (25-05-15), liffey (25-05-15), Melindablondey (25-05-15), The dirt bird (25-05-15), Zealot7 (25-05-15), zoozoozoo (25-05-15)

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Eire.
    Posts
    8,325
    Reviews
    39

    Default

    In Ireland ,Sweden is too often held up as some sort of utopia, a paragon of virtue to be slavishly copied.A paradigm for us to live our lives and formulate our laws by.
    Apart from the fact that it is a significantly different culture, I am sure if you look at social issues in Sweden, you will find as many problems as anywhere else.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nonpareil For This Useful Post:

    Davidontour (25-05-15), Melindablondey (25-05-15)

  5. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Belfast, lap of luxury
    Posts
    14,857
    Blog Entries
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    In Ireland ,Sweden is too often held up as some sort of utopia, a paragon of virtue to be slavishly copied.A paradigm for us to live our lives and formulate our laws by.
    Apart from the fact that it is a significantly different culture, I am sure if you look at social issues in Sweden, you will find as many problems as anywhere else.
    They have awful social reputation and are extremists at best. They currently have high stats in rape and HIV.

    The population of Ireland is just under half of Sweden.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Curvaceous Kate For This Useful Post:

    liffey (25-05-15), Melindablondey (25-05-15), nonpareil (25-05-15)

  7. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Belfast / Beal Feirste / Capital of Norn Iron
    Posts
    1,118
    Reviews
    5

    Default

    Swedish figures overall suggest that the chances of being apprehended as a client are somewhere around 5%.

    It does need to be remembered that this is NOT about trafficking. This is about, as Frances Fitzgerald says; ''sending a message.'' Sex work is strongly disapproved by religionists and certain strands of feminism. TORL and Ruhama are well aware of the facts but are also well aware that the public aren't, so by pushing false definitions and statistics, they can benefit from increased funding and influence.

    No-one is going to be 'saved' or 'rescued' through client criminalisation. If they were, this would have been agreed in Westminster and Scotland last year instead of being rejected. The USA would have stamped out trafficking and sex work decades ago as their policies against clients are much tougher than anything proposed here. It hasn't worked there or in Sweden and it won't work here.

    What it will do though is increase stigma, decrease sex worker safety, deny sex workers rights and raise revenue, some of which will be channeled back to the Magdalenes and various other opportunistic NGOs.

    So it will be up to clients to keep themselves safe by being discreet and sensible. Sweden still has large numbers of sex workers after 16 years. Client criminalisation makes things more difficult, but ultimately doesn't stop consenting adults having sex.
    2014 in Northern Ireland:

    Number of reported attacks on sex workers 70

    Number of sex trafficking cases ZERO

  8. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Davidontour For This Useful Post:

    Curvaceous Kate (25-05-15), GOSHH (28-05-15), irishdeltaforce (25-05-15), liffey (25-05-15), Melindablondey (25-05-15), nonpareil (25-05-15), Playitsam (25-05-15)

  9. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    ddublin west
    Posts
    3,670
    Blog Entries
    5
    Reviews
    33

    Default

    Being discrete is fine for repeat visits...I find first visits can indeed be very dificult with escorts giving poor descriptiions, sometimes with good enough english, but bad pronouciation.
    Nothing worse than phone calls on a busy street, or trying to find the correct appartment niumber and bell sign on a dark wet night.
    If a resident makes a complaint, then the police have to investigate.
    Repeat visits are usually fine

  10. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    5,630
    Reviews
    13

    Default

    We in Ireland tend to have low national self esteem. Hence Enda endlessly going on about our'international reputation". Another aspect of this is the constant referring to 'our dark past' a litany of various secret or not so secret abuses carried out by a combination of Church (both RC and COI) bodies and state collusion. While sad and tragic all this is, you will find similar or even worse abuses carried out in many other countries (think Nazi Germany)

    Sweden is no different. This country practiced the the dark practice of Eugenics, the forced sterilisation of women to stop them reproducing and fouling up the purity of the Swedish race.

  11. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,212
    Reviews
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CurvaceousKate View Post
    I can see that some people here are completely freaking out with the law change. Some of you are feeling resentment, some of you are just plain scared, while others are going to give up and some play safe with who they already know.

    I thought that maybe if you had some facts you might get a better perspective on the reality and then you can make a more informed decision on what you want to do and hopefully stop feeling resentment towards the sex workers for not being made criminals, as believe me, it is no walk in the park for us either.

    So... let's start with comparing Sweden with Northern Ireland.

    In 1999 when the law was introduced the population of Sweden was 8.858. While Northern Ireland in 2014 is 1.8 million. That is over 4 times smaller than Sweden.

    In the first year there were 94 reports and 11 people were prosecuted or given 'wavered prosecutions', which meant they had to go on an adult caution scheme (no prison).

    That is with a population of 8.58 million

    In 2011 it was recorded a population 9.5 million in Sweden, so nearly 5 times more than Northern Ireland. 12 years after the law came in to place the reports have increased predominantly, with a record of 765 reportings and a total of 445 prosecutions and wavered prosecutions, which comparable would translate to approx 89 for Northern Ireland.

    There is no record of anyone going to prison.

    You also need to take into account that the methods used in Sweden are not all accessible to the PSNI, along with the resources or the man power.

    It's not great, but Northern Ireland is not Sweden. Yes there will be some people reported, but they will be the ones that don't know what they are doing, let their guard down or don't try to play safe. If you are careful and plan properly, don't act on impulse so much and try to make sure you know where you're going you should be okay. They don't have the money to go after everyone, they are going to concentrate on the nuisance calls, the over used and less discrete and leave the rest of us to get on with our work in peace.
    As is often the case, your post is impenetrable and your logic flawed.
    For the one man who is caught by the PSNI and is publicat shamed and humiliated, your stats will be of cold comfort. For the man who has may be seen his marriage or family life torn apart, may be has to move location or leave NI altogether, the relative size of Sweden's population will be of no help or reassurance whatsoever. If the man concerned is also risk averse, then this will oh make the risk more front of mind for him. No matter what you say, no matter what stats you roll out, the risk of public naming and shaming will always exist. The risk may be small, but the price to pay is potentially exceptionally high.
    So each client will have to work out his own attitude to risk, and how best to minimise the risk for himself
    Just can't give this mad shit up

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Belfast, lap of luxury
    Posts
    14,857
    Blog Entries
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EIFII View Post
    As is often the case, your post is impenetrable and your logic flawed.
    For the one man who is caught by the PSNI and is publicat shamed and humiliated, your stats will be of cold comfort. For the man who has may be seen his marriage or family life torn apart, may be has to move location or leave NI altogether, the relative size of Sweden's population will be of no help or reassurance whatsoever. If the man concerned is also risk averse, then this will oh make the risk more front of mind for him. No matter what you say, no matter what stats you roll out, the risk of public naming and shaming will always exist. The risk may be small, but the price to pay is potentially exceptionally high.
    So each client will have to work out his own attitude to risk, and how best to minimise the risk for himself
    Perhaps you should read my last paragraph again. I'm not telling people to take this lightly. I'm telling them to play safe, not act on impulse and avoid the places that are well known and if they choose to continue (always their choice) then it should keep them from being one of those who are reported and consequently prosecuted.

    If I was trying to pull the wool over ppl's eyes, I would not have bothered to find out the stats for Sweden and to calculate the likely outcome over here.

    Where is my logic flawed?

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Curvaceous Kate For This Useful Post:

    irishdeltaforce (25-05-15), Larrii (26-05-15), Melindablondey (25-05-15)

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Belfast / Beal Feirste / Capital of Norn Iron
    Posts
    1,118
    Reviews
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EIFII View Post
    As is often the case, your post is impenetrable and your logic flawed.
    For the one man who is caught by the PSNI and is publicat shamed and humiliated, your stats will be of cold comfort. For the man who has may be seen his marriage or family life torn apart, may be has to move location or leave NI altogether, the relative size of Sweden's population will be of no help or reassurance whatsoever. If the man concerned is also risk averse, then this will oh make the risk more front of mind for him. No matter what you say, no matter what stats you roll out, the risk of public naming and shaming will always exist. The risk may be small, but the price to pay is potentially exceptionally high.
    So each client will have to work out his own attitude to risk, and how best to minimise the risk for himself
    How is this post ''impenetrable''? It's simply giving the facts on how the law has been enacted in Sweden.

    Of course it's up to each client to weigh up the risks for themselves, but it helps when they have some idea what the risks are likely to be.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Davidontour For This Useful Post:

    Curvaceous Kate (25-05-15), Melindablondey (25-05-15)

  16. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    5,630
    Reviews
    13

    Default


  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dob For This Useful Post:

    Curvaceous Kate (26-05-15), NoBrain2 (25-05-15)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •