Sexual offences Bill

[redone7010]

Lads really get a grip.
What you ignore completly from your own example is the speed gun.it is not the guard that is stating your broke the law he is giving evidence to what the gun registered was your speed.
The only law that allows a guards opinion as basis for law is the offences against the state act which only allows a chief superintendant give evidence to being a member of an illegal organisation, i think ill delete my membership to the ass appreciation society just in case.
Like othes have said once you deny, there is nothing that can be done unless it was a sting. This new law while causing everyone to fear seems to me to be extra leverage in the war against the organised crime brothels massage parlors etc which if there is trafficing going on, is where the majority will be. To this end we should welcome some attention put on organised crime.
As for the rest of us for some reason some of you are really trying to scare off some people with ridiculous statements about being arrested for coming out of a premises, for fuck sake even for drinking after hours you have to be found ON the premises. A million reason could be given for coming out of a premises, shes a friend and had trouble with the tv, needed help moving a warddrobe etc.cross dressing party
The only way to be caught even with new laws is either sting or the real likelyhood of owning up yourself.as for guard taking you to the station it cant happen.

EI surely with all this nonsense a legal opinion can be stated at this stage by a professional as maybe then certain people will stop the ridiculiuos statements

What he is doing is saying in court what the speed gun reading was, and that is accepted by the judge ever time.
I`ve said here earlier, people need to read and understand what this new law is, not what they suppose it is, or what defense they hope can be offered that will be accepted. Comparing the requirement of the drinking laws in the case of prosecution is akin to comparing sugar to salt where this new law is concerned.
Like yourself, I would be interested in Escort Ireland`s take on this new law,rather than the opinion of escorts whose livliehood will be affected but I wouldn`t hold my breath.

[xcitedcork]

Laws are put in place to act as a deterrent, the drink driving law is not about catching people but about deterring them from committing the crime.
This new law won't stop everyone from visiting escorts but I feel it will deter the majority inc. myself. All this talk about proof and evidence doesn't matter to the average punter, the fact that upon leaving an escort you can be detained under the suspicion of committing a crime will be enough. For all we know you could be held for 24 hrs without charge, try explaining that to your wife or boss (luv lunch time visits).
I see a massive reduction in those using this fine service and it is sad that the govt feel they need to legislate against this. Obviously there are problems at one end of the scale which need to be addressed but this shouldn't be a one fix sorts all issue.

Other members have scared people so much that what they are saying isnt even being challanged on legal grounds.here are some.
A garda can stop and ask your details which you are not obliged to answer. The garda has two grounds to arrest you 1 is under the criminal justice act section 4 but in this instance he cant as for that law the offence under suspicion has to carry 5 years imprison, people who want to argue please check it first, its section 4 criminal justice act 1984.
The second way he can is under the sex offences act 1993 which is the one the new law is inserting new paragraphs into.under this law the garda can detain or arrest someone under sections 4,6,7,8,10 the only one which could be used in this instance is section 6.under this section the garda must reasonably suspect that a person has solicited another person for sex, how can any garda swear to that in court without having even observed who it was you spoke to.

Can everyone stop giving legal opinions unless it is accompanied with some facts, i am not a solicitor but familiar with some of these laws through my work. Everyone can check them out for themselves everything is on line these days.

Also no one has comment on the fact that the new bill which runs for over 100 pages has two paragraphs only in it on the plan to make purchasing sex illegal.The rest of the bill is excellent, well over due legislation to protect everyone from kids to the disabled etc.
Again posters are making out that the bill is all about this, its not.

[mexicanpete]

‘Good evening officer, how are you?...... ‘Yes, you are correct. I have just met a girl called Laura in apartment 12. A wonderful girl with a great pair of hands. I had a marvellous massage and I can highly recommend her relaxing massage if you are feeling a little stressed from hanging around out here.’ ……. ‘No officer, you are mistaken, I never asked for sex or paid for sex, it is against the law you know’ …………………’If Laura has sex with other men for money, I would certainly not condone it but I fail to see what it has to do with me’……………….’I can understand you suspicion officer, it is part of your job and Laura is certainly an attractive woman. I can assure you however that I am a happily married man and I only have sex with my wife. I have to say though that an invigorating massage from an attractive woman leaves me nicely set up to go home and give my wife a good seeing to. So, if that is all officer, I will be off home now.’

It is important not to get caught out in stupid and unnecessary lies or outlandish stories that could be used as evidence against you. Tell the truth and only the truth. You went to the apartment to meet with Laura and you paid her for a massage which you received and which you were very happy with. You did not ask for sex or pay for sex.

All that you have done is omit to mention that you both got so horny during the massage that you had sex anyway. Everyone should have this simple true storey clear in their own mind in case that they are stopped.

[xcitedcork]

I'm just not seeing it - a new Garda unit with a budget supposedly in the few million € actively sitting outside escorts apartments, harassing punters who come and go trying to get them to admit purchasing sex, being given complete impunity to implicate people on their word - removing all burden of proof, engaging in stings (like the US) and then every case going to court. Given how inefficient everything to do with the government is and has been, it seems impossible to me. [/QUOTE]
Exactly, well put. Again what paranoid posters are inferring is that the new unit is to catch us!
The new unit is to deal with child protection, domestic violence and human exploitation. Now does anyone really want to guess where punters will lie in the order of importance of this.

[leggykelly]

Words become easy for these people let's see how they perform in reality

[mexicanpete]

Words become easy for these people let's see how they perform in reality

The point that I was trying to make above is that words come a lot easier if you are telling the truth and you keep that simple truth clear in your mind.

[redone7010]

Other members have scared people so much that what they are saying isnt even being challanged on legal grounds.here are some.
A garda can stop and ask your details which you are not obliged to answer. The garda has two grounds to arrest you 1 is under the criminal justice act section 4 but in this instance he cant as for that law the offence under suspicion has to carry 5 years imprison, people who want to argue please check it first, its section 4 criminal justice act 1984.
The second way he can is under the sex offences act 1993 which is the one the new law is inserting new paragraphs into.under this law the garda can detain or arrest someone under sections 4,6,7,8,10 the only one which could be used in this instance is section 6.under this section the garda must reasonably suspect that a person has solicited another person for sex, how can any garda swear to that in court without having even observed who it was you spoke to.

Can everyone stop giving legal opinions unless it is accompanied with some facts, i am not a solicitor but familiar with some of these laws through my work. Everyone can check them out for themselves everything is on line these days.

Also no one has comment on the fact that the new bill which runs for over 100 pages has two paragraphs only in it on the plan to make purchasing sex illegal.The rest of the bill is excellent, well over due legislation to protect everyone from kids to the disabled etc.
Again posters are making out that the bill is all about this, its not.

If a Garda has the power under this new law to detain and arrest based only on a reasonable suspicion that a person has solicited another person for sex,in all probability aren`t you looking at a court appearance.

[redone7010]

I'm just not seeing it - a new Garda unit with a budget supposedly in the few million € actively sitting outside escorts apartments, harassing punters who come and go trying to get them to admit purchasing sex, being given complete impunity to implicate people on their word - removing all burden of proof, engaging in stings (like the US) and then every case going to court. Given how inefficient everything to do with the government is and has been, it seems impossible to me.

Exactly, well put. Again what paranoid posters are inferring is that the new unit is to catch us!
The new unit is to deal with child protection, domestic violence and human exploitation. Now does anyone really want to guess where punters will lie in the order of importance of this.[/QUOTE]

The purchase of sexual services also comes under the remit of this new unit. under which of the four heading of their remit to you think the Garda would get most media coverage out off through prosecutions to justify their existence?

[xcitedcork]

Exactly, well put. Again what paranoid posters are inferring is that the new unit is to catch us!
The new unit is to deal with child protection, domestic violence and human exploitation. Now does anyone really want to guess where punters will lie in the order of importance of this.

The purchase of sexual services also comes under the remit of this new unit. under which of the four heading of their remit to you think the Garda would get most media coverage out off through prosecutions to justify their existence?[/QUOTE]

Umm lets see

Abused children
Abused battered women
Rape
Trafficked women

Punters seeing an escort..........

I have a fair idea where their attentions are not going to be as they will be under resourced and under funded

Who has ye all wound up about this. Where did this theory that the guards are only interested in optics.
This isnt a new fad, all they have done is moved resources together from functions that used to be seperate into one group which should be more efficient and successful. Again we should be all happy on such a move if the greater good is achieved.
Or were the guards behind the JFK assasination plot.

[xcitedcork]

If a Garda has the power under this new law to detain and arrest based only on a reasonable suspicion that a person has solicited another person for sex,in all probability aren`t you looking at a court appearance.

No, not based on the garda only being of the belief that you were in an appartment that may or may not have a person within it that may or may not be a prostitute.The garda could not have reasonable grounds if they didnt even know who you met with.It will come down to what answers you give.
The guards are watching rachel......who did you just meet, oh my friend sharon! the guard could not have any reasonable grounds as he cant know if you even met the same person.
Worth noting also that this is not in the new piece of legislation and has always been there, dont recall it ever being used or stated in the press, do you?