Sexual offences Bill

[BarryMar]

Good to know - there seems to be a lot of thought into these new laws that have a long way to go

[Zealot7]

Not if your overheard!

Do you honestly listen to people out and about in public with a phone to their ears?

And besides what is one going to overhear if you're discrete? It normally goes something like:

You: Hi, I'm at the <whatever the agreed place is>
Her: <Gives you final directions>
You: Okay. See you soon

Assuming they only hear what you say and not her, what can they decipher? Not really that much, it's not at all clear who you're visiting or even why you're visiting them.

[The Libertarian]

Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald today said she hopes to have the new sexual offences bill before the oireachtas
before the summer recess . The Lady aint for moving i guess

"Lady" nor "feminist" are terms that should not be used to describe a gobshite completely out of her depth, who is about to introduced failed insane leguislation to make life hell on earth for sex workers!

[The Libertarian]

Also as has been shown with their efforts to ban drugs, rushed laws are always bad laws subject to constitutional challenge!
My understanding is that the proposed law is in breach of several articles in the UN convention on human rights for a start and surely as people supposedly (LOL) have a right to equal treatment under the law, that is at least one ground probably of many, where this insane law will be unconstitutional!
BRING BACK ALAN SHATER!

[fideldarcy]

female garda commissioner + female justice minister = inevitability

[redone7010]

Do you honestly listen to people out and about in public with a phone to their ears?

And besides what is one going to overhear if you're discrete? It normally goes something like:

You: Hi, I'm at the <whatever the agreed place is>
Her: <Gives you final directions>
You: Okay. See you soon

Assuming they only hear what you say and not her, what can they decipher? Not really that much, it's not at all clear who you're visiting or even why you're visiting them.

Unfortunately the agreed place is usually at the entrance to an apartment block where you are left with a phone to your ear waiting for a reply and the code to the door. You might as well be standing with you dick in your hand as regards discretion.
If the escorts are serious about the punters security with this new law, then they need to give this info before punters get to the entrance.

[redone7010]

Also as has been shown with their efforts to ban drugs, rushed laws are always bad laws subject to constitutional challenge!
My understanding is that the proposed law is in breach of several articles in the UN convention on human rights for a start and surely as people supposedly (LOL) have a right to equal treatment under the law, that is at least one ground probably of many, where this insane law will be unconstitutional!
BRING BACK ALAN SHATER!

There is ever chance this law may be unconstitutional, but who is going to challenge it ?

[Curvaceous Kate]

Unfortunately the agreed place is usually at the entrance to an apartment block where you are left with a phone to your ear waiting for a reply and the code to the door. You might as well be standing with you dick in your hand as regards discretion.
If the escorts are serious about the punters security with this new law, then they need to give this info before punters get to the entrance.

No sex worker is going to send you to their apartment before giving further instruction. Sounds like you're one of the ones that insists on walking along while being given the instructions.

Also while we're on the subject, why do guys insist on repeating the number of the apartment when you give it to them? If you're wanting clarification, just ask the lady/gent to say it again and if it sounds the same you have it. If it still doesn't work and they have seen you and know you are there, then ask them to text the number as you can't here well. Just keep discrete!

[Parrot]

No sex worker is going to send you to their apartment before giving further instruction.

Maybe you should try punting for a while before telling us what it's like? Happens very often that a lady wants you to ring her from the door to the building.

[Zealot7]

This will be my last post in this thread I reckon, I can't be bothered arguing this anymore.

I can see this definitely being enforced with those who solicit the use of street girls, but I still can't see it being policed when it comes to truly independent escorts no matter how hard I try, and here's why:

Yes it's true a garda could ring up a girl, pretend to be a client and get directions from her to her apartment. The girl sees him as another time-waster and doesn't think more of it. Then, it's also true he could wait outside said apartment watching for punters coming and going, and yes it's true that the silly wording of "Reasonable Grounds" could mean the Garda could at least try and get you to pay a fine if caught and you stupidly admit to anything. The law says the 1st offense is a fine of €500, NOT a court appearance (where did people get this from?)

BUT... how difficult it is going to be to identify punters coming and going will vary. If it's a quiet location, people coming and going will be obvious. Are they punters though? Couldn't they just be people visiting friends? How will the Garda know? On the other hand, if it's a busy city apartment block, there are going to be a lot of people coming and going so a would-be punter isn't going to stand out phone-to-ear or no phone-to-ear as long as he doesn't draw huge amounts of attention to himself.

Then, lets say the garda becomes convinced somebody who arrives and then leaves an hour later actually IS a punter. What do they do then? Hassle them and try and get them to admit to paying for sex? What if that person actually isn't a punter? It's highly possible in a busy city location, people aren't going to appreciate being hassled by the gardai into admitting into paying for sex if they haven't done so.

Even if the guy is a punter, can't he just deny everything and refuse to give away any information? Where's the proof they're going to have if they're just observing the door of an apartment block? Where's their justification going to be for demanding all this information from you?

And then... how many clients do escorts here have in a day? 3/4/5/6? Having to wait an extended period of time outside an apartment block with 24/7 style surveillance just to have a slim chance of catching a punter or two with zero proof or leverage to get them to admit to anything seems like a very fruitless thing to do. Then... how many escorts are in any one town/city at a time?

The task of adequately policing it is monumental. It just isn't going to happen, it doesn't even happen in countries that have the stupid "Nordic Model" law in the case of escorts. I'd be extremely surprised if they even go after punters AT ALL here. The only way it can realistically happen is if the Gardai are given the powers police forces like the Gestapo in Nazi Germany had, and thankfully we're not there yet.

TL;DR: It can't be policed and won't be in the case of independent escorts as long as the punter and escort alike keep their wits about them.

Anyway... I'm outta this thread.