Sexual offences Bill

[The Highlander]

I think the simple answer is that they can't. They honestly don't have the powers to do so in the case of the way a vist to an independent escort works. I mean they'd really have to forcefully break into the apartment/hotel room while you're in the middle of the act to prove the client did go there for sex, that's not something they have the power to do without a warrant.

And then... how do they prove money actually changed hands? Are they honestly going to dust the place for fingerprints just to prove money changed hands? How else could they prove it?

Even if you're to think about the methods of contacting a lady - Phones don't have to be registered here in Ireland (yet anyway), you can buy them over the counter with no ID at all, and top them up using cash. In countries like Norway you need a passport to buy a phone so your identity can be linked with the number, but even then there are simple ways around it like the use of email and services like skype.

The more I think about this stupid law, the less I worry about it.

And... in the event the government un-bankrupts itself and we can actually afford a massive, intrusive and likely illegal Gardai campaign to police all of us here (highly unlikely), I'll up and leave this country and take my tax Euros with me. I ain't going to stand for the government thinking it can interfere with my sex life.

The police don't need a warrant to enter a property when they have formed the opinion that a crime is in the process of being committed there. They can force an entry or just get hold of the hotel manager or landlord to let them in.

[The Highlander]

People here should really read the heads of the proposed bill:

Head 10 New section 5A in Act of 1993
(offence of purchasing sexual services)
Provide that –
The following section is inserted after section 5 of the Act of 1993
“Offence of purchasing sexual services
5A(1) For the purposes of this head, the term “sexual service” shall have the same
meaning as the term “sexual activity.”
(2) Where, in the context of prostitution, any person who purchases a sexual service
from another person, in any place, he or she shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary
conviction to:
(a) a class E fine, in the case of a first conviction, or
(b) a class D fine, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction.
(4) Any person who attempts to purchase a sexual service from another person, in
any place, he or she shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary
conviction to a class E fine.”

Head 11 New section 5B in Act of 1993
(offence of purchasing sexual services from a trafficked person)
Provide that –
The following section is inserted after section 5 of the Act of 1993
Offence of purchasing sexual services from a trafficked person
5B(1) For the purposes of this head, the term “sexual service” shall have the same
meaning as the term “sexual activity.”
(2) For the purposes of this head, the term “trafficked person” shall have the same
meaning as in section 5 of the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008.
(3) Where, for the purposes of the prostitution of a trafficked person, a person
knowingly purchases a sexual service from that person, in any place, he or she shall
be guilty of an offence.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable:
(a) on summary conviction to a class A fine, or a term of imprisonment
not exceeding 12 months, or both; or
(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine or a term of imprisonment not
exceeding 5 years, or both.
(5) Any person who attempts to purchase a sexual service from a trafficked person,
in any place, he or she shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary
conviction to a class E fine.

As you can see from 10.4 and 11.5, they also want to be able to do punters for merely attempting to purchase sexual service. So no sex or hand over of money required under those subsections.

[warmcome]

I attempted to purchase sex.

[mexicanpete]

What about when the police ask you the name, age and nationality of the person you met and how, where and when you got to know them first?

Presumably they would ask the escort the same questions, so you'd better have shared some personal information and concocted the same story in advance.

Why should you know anything about the personal details of a massage therapist? If you say that you only had a massage from the girl and that was all you paid for, the only person who could say different is the girl and why should she? As I see it, there is no threat that the police could use to force the girl to testify against a client. It seems odd that paying for sex could be outlawed while selling it is not.

[happygolucky]

I attempted to purchase sex.

And the lady said fuck off you old fat bald ugly fucker, well that's what Jamescork told me happened , lol

[happygolucky]

Why should you know anything about the personal details of a massage therapist? If you say that you only had a massage from the girl and that was all you paid for, the only person who could say different is the girl and why should she? As I see it, there is no threat that the police could use to force the girl to testify against a client. It seems odd that paying for sex could be outlawed while selling it is not.

If a lady is fined for selling sex , one , she will most likely be foreign so the chances of friends and family finding out are slim
Two , it's just a buisness expense so the lady puts it down to experience.
For the client it's not the fine that's the problem, it's the publicity

[flirtyman]

Be caught on audio tape defrauding the state of millions, but walk away. Doesn't seem fair does it?

[redone7010]

I believe a lot of people are kidding themselves here as regards the proposed law and how it will or will not work.
The massage route unless the lady in question can prove she is a registered masseuse wont work imo. There have been prosecutions and convictions in this country for massage parlours in the past. as to how they will prove you visited an escort, a garda will give evidence of observing a premises, the superintendent will say his piece, and the judge wiill take their word. fine and media coverage will follow.

[mexicanpete]

If a lady is fined for selling sex , one , she will most likely be foreign so the chances of friends and family finding out are slim
Two , it's just a buisness expense so the lady puts it down to experience.
For the client it's not the fine that's the problem, it's the publicity

As I understand it, a girl selling sex is legal unless there is a second girl using the same apartment. Therefore, the police would have no leverage to persuade the girl to testify against her client

[zicooo]

People here should really read the heads of the proposed bill:

Head 10 New section 5A in Act of 1993
(offence of purchasing sexual services)
Provide that –
The following section is inserted after section 5 of the Act of 1993
“Offence of purchasing sexual services
5A(1) For the purposes of this head, the term “sexual service” shall have the same
meaning as the term “sexual activity.”
(2) Where, in the context of prostitution, any person who purchases a sexual service
from another person, in any place, he or she shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary
conviction to:
(a) a class E fine, in the case of a first conviction, or
(b) a class D fine, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction.
(4) Any person who attempts to purchase a sexual service from another person, in
any place, he or she shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary
conviction to a class E fine.”

Head 11 New section 5B in Act of 1993
(offence of purchasing sexual services from a trafficked person)
Provide that –
The following section is inserted after section 5 of the Act of 1993
Offence of purchasing sexual services from a trafficked person
5B(1) For the purposes of this head, the term “sexual service” shall have the same
meaning as the term “sexual activity.”
(2) For the purposes of this head, the term “trafficked person” shall have the same
meaning as in section 5 of the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008.
(3) Where, for the purposes of the prostitution of a trafficked person, a person
knowingly purchases a sexual service from that person, in any place, he or she shall
be guilty of an offence.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable:
(a) on summary conviction to a class A fine, or a term of imprisonment
not exceeding 12 months, or both; or
(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine or a term of imprisonment not
exceeding 5 years, or both.
(5) Any person who attempts to purchase a sexual service from a trafficked person,
in any place, he or she shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary
conviction to a class E fine.

As you can see from 10.4 and 11.5, they also want to be able to do punters for merely attempting to purchase sexual service. So no sex or hand over of money required under those subsections.

furthermore gardai only require belief that an offence is taking place to merely make an arrest, no amount of arguing at that stage regarding proof will have no relevance, also the element of proof required by the early draft requires merely proof that the reasonable person would consider an offence to have been committed, considerably lower than any other criminal statue.
obviously provincial newspapers could fill pages on court reports.