Conclusion of Meeting with Minister

[Catriona]

You know the problem with Sweden is it's too tied up with Feminist agenda and the problem with Ireland is it still has this whole Catholic issue. The minister was never going to do anything else, it's not about what's right or wrong really, it's about guilt.

She questioned one of the researchers who went in with us in a patronising tone "as a feminist...". This researcher helped her get first elected.

[Catriona]

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was the first who insisted on making is a SF mandate in the South. And so they were whipped.

[Lucy Chambers]

She questioned one of the researchers who went in with us in a patronising tone "as a feminist...". This researcher helped her get first elected.

I seem to remember when she very first got in she stated she thought it was a good idea. I think perhaps in her mind she needs to justify the thousands of euro given to Ruhama to teach us all to knit. It's a mess. Thanks for trying Catriona, it's so disheartening.

[Davidontour]

She didn't know it was rejected in the UK until we told her at the meeting. She mentioned Canada, where the Swedish model was passed there a couple of days ago. I explained to her that it was sex workers who were against it and so was most of the opposition. And the results of the litigation case last year shouldn't be ignored either.



TORL has never done a poll on this law, so I think most people agree that the Swedish Model is a bad idea, but people vote TDs and others for different reasons and sex work is probably not one of their main concerns when balloting their vote.

"She didn't know it was rejected in the UK until we told her at the meeting."

This suggests one of three things:

1. She is lying.
2. She is incredibly badly informed / advised.
3. She is shockingly ignorant of recent decisions made in a neighbouring country on an area of policy she is directly responsible for.

Any of the above render her unfit for office.

[Rocker123]

Some of you are aware that yesterday I went with a couple of other girls to see Minister Frances Fitzgerald, unfortunately she wasn't interested in listening to our concerns. She thinks it's more important to send a message that you "can't buy girls" rather than to give us safe working conditions as making it difficult to work will prevent people from joining the industry. She didn't want to make sex buying "norminative".

She wanted to make sure people had access to services and doesn't want the new law to prevent that from happening. I tried to push the New Zealand model which has seen reduced demand and also creates a safer working environment.

Generally she was rather patronising of our opinions and wasn't going to budge on the issue as you know sex workers lives are something worth throwing under the bus to send some empty message.

Congrats to you and your colleagues for meeting the minister and making your case.

It is extraordinary but not surprising that the Minister would not be interested in the concerns of the very people she is supposedly trying to protect! The fact that you were free to meet her is in itself clear evidence that some escorts at least are working freely in this industry. free to come and go as you please and not chained to radiators and drugged up to your eyeballs as the turn off the red light brigade would have us all believe.

The unfortunate reality is that you are dealing with a party politician. The irony is that You are more independent than she is!! There is (as always) a Party Political agenda and politicians will stick to that relentlessly. It is not about honest intelligent debate, it is about sticking to the agreed party policy at all costs. If escorts were a large voting group, things would be different but most escorts are not on the live register of electors. There are no votes in escorts.

At one point in history it was expounded that the world was flat. The best minds of the time said differently but were not listened to because it did not fit the agenda of those who were in control. Anyone who said anything different was silenced, ridiculed and ignored. It seems things haven't changed!

[Meursault]

The party members will always think in terms of votes and what the majority want. Unfortunatley the majority (in particular women) do not want prostitution. The majority of women either are married or want to get married and they dont want their beau sneaking off to visit a lady and hence why the need to criminalize it more or whatever.

Now there are males pushing through for it to be criminalized. But it is mainly the female who drives it.

The template for life is marriage, work and family and so something that pushes people towards that will be welcomed. Thats an economic aspect of it, but its mainly because women want to shut down the avenue for men to visit escorts. Unfortunately escorts are a minority, if you can even call them that and the fact that its in NI, means it will more than likely be introduced here

[leon123]

Sounds like she didnt really listen to ye with an open mind , be tough changing her mind on this . I think she is set on bringing this in because it will look good on her profile .People who know nothing about the girls or the business will think its a good thing .

[Davidontour]

The thing is that Denmark, Finland, Scotland & England have all rejected this model. Germany, Netherlands & New Zealand have not only rejected it but gone in the opposite direction.

It's difficult to see how any of the above govts would stand to gain votes from endorsing sex work. It would seem more likely that they have a grip on reality and care about sex worker rights.

[samlad]

The thing is that Denmark, Finland, Scotland & England have all rejected this model. Germany, Netherlands & New Zealand have not only rejected it but gone in the opposite direction.

It's difficult to see how any of the above govts would stand to gain votes from endorsing sex work. It would seem more likely that they have a grip on reality and care about sex worker rights.

They aren't countries that are dominated by a 'moral' Catholic code.

[Catriona]

The thing is that Denmark, Finland, Scotland & England have all rejected this model. Germany, Netherlands & New Zealand have not only rejected it but gone in the opposite direction.

It's difficult to see how any of the above govts would stand to gain votes from endorsing sex work. It would seem more likely that they have a grip on reality and care about sex worker rights.

I would like to add that Germany nor Holland are not ideal models and are peddling back on reforms in the recent year. They want mandatory registeration for sex workers in Germany like as though we are cattle and raise the minimum age of entry to 21. Brothels can be raided and closed to the authorities beckoning, because they don't fare not regulated under business law but criminal law. I know German sex workers who preferred the old system because of how the authorities are breathing down your neck. I have friends who were sex workers and when checking their driver license they could find on the computer that they were sex workers and purposely outed them to the passengers on the car.

Sex Workers in Germany and Holland have fought for years against mandatory registeration and health checl as though we are disgusting creatures full of disease and to be stamped. This job is stigmatising enough without being treated like that.