Peaceful Epileptic Protester Has Head Dragged Along Ground By 'Guards'!

[piggi]

I appears to me that the guards were very polite and restrained

Nonsense.

The gards did the only thing they know how to do: weight-in with brute force. They don't do subtlety, they don't do moderation and they don't do negotiation.

They don't do much about crime either.

What is very apparent in this clip is a lack of training. When one considers the length of time that they spend in Templemore, and their lack of competence in pretty much every area of policing, one might wonder what training they actually receive, if any.

Listen to the abusive foreign voice in the background

Surely an experienced police-officer should be thick-skinned enough to survive a bit of verbal hostility. We expect this from footballers, healthcare workers and even children in the school playground - a grown policeman shouldn't cry every time he hears the word "pig" - you never know, once in a while it mightn't even be aimed at him!

...but do any of these protestors have any sympathy for the families of the 3 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered and dumped in the desert that was the spark for this current situation ?

I'm sure that every decent person was disgusted by the death of those kids, and heartbroken for their families. But, be clear, sympathy is not about using a tragedy for political capital and as leverage to kill hundreds of civilians as Israel has done in this case.

And to describe these tragic deaths as the "spark" for what is happening in Gaza now is willfully stupid. The roots of this crisis are the same as the roots of all crises in that part of the world: A bully-boy state illegally occupies somebody else's land and labels the people who live there as terrorists so as to justify the continued occupation and the ongoing brutality towards those people.

One might understand why we here in Ireland empathise with the Palestinian people. At one time we were the Palestinian people.

[JAMESCORK]

I see no brutality... I think the Gardaí acted effectively and fairly. We don't see what actually caused them to forcefully remove this man in the first place. I see no injury to the mans face.

[Lara Mills]

From watching the video, it's clear that the police wanted to clear the road. The man having the seizure was in the road, and so needed to be moved because it really wasn't the best place for him to be.

It may come across as a bit heavy-handed and rough, but has anyone here tried to move someone who is having a seizure? I have, so I know how difficult it is to ensure you don't cause any further harm to them. You can't predict how they will move, and while it may have been best to leave him, letting him stay in the middle of the road clearly wasn't an option.

What were the other options?

I think what would have helped better would be more helping to carry him out of the way, both police and protestors. Two police officers trying to carry a person is fine if they are aware and willing, but if you're having a fit it's all chaotic. From watching the video, I think they did the best they could.

[piggi]

Agree with U "Playitsam" the Guards/Police have to deal with every situation AS IT PRESENTS ITSELF at that minuet, & tell me anyone how do U recgonise a person with a medical condition (Thats not physicaly obvious) in fairness the Garda's helped & called an ambulance whilst trying to deal with OPERTUNISTIC abuse from side line people whom MOST dident know his condition either & I might add been told REPEATLY to stand back/move off,.....I think fair play "Overall" to the Gardai trying to do their best amist the situation been agravated by the crowd etc.

In fairness, with this post you have set a new high-point for absolute b0ll0x.

When restraining or forcibily moving a NON-VIOLENT protestor, the act of dragging them away with their head scraping the ground is extremely unprofessional and completely unnecessary.

Staff in every mental hospital and prison are trained to move people who become violent safely, and do so on a daily basis. It requires a properly delivered training, a safety mind-set and team work. In other words it is easy to get right if you want to.

I love the way you characterise the comments of the other protestors as "self-serving" but do not comment on actions of gardai, once the guy begins to have a seizure and they realise that they are on camera. The tender and quite beautiful moment when a gard lovingly places a hand on the man's torso in a gesture of tenderness nearly brought a tear to the eye. But then I recalled the image of the self-same gards dragging the man across the ground with his head bouncing on the concrete a few moments later.

You also make reference to "the crowd". Perhaps I am missing something but the number of people I saw on the clip would hardly constitute a crowd. I've had more people in my house for dinner.

I wondered for a while how a person could view that clip and then write a post supporting the gardai.

Then I noticed your spelling, punctuation and sentence-structure. Are you a gard yourself?

[Petros]

I think that the Gardaí in general are a lazy, self serving excuse for a police force. Why is it that you can never find one when you need one?

TBF I think a lot of that has more to do with the over structure of the force and those who run it than with the guys on the beat!

They are being starved of funds to beat the band which is not good!

[JAMESCORK]

In fairness, with this post you have set a new high-point for absolute b0ll0x.

When restraining or forcibily moving a NON-VIOLENT protestor, the act of dragging them away with their head scraping the ground is extremely unprofessional and completely unnecessary.

Staff in every mental hospital and prison are trained to move people who become violent safely, and do so on a daily basis. It requires a properly delivered training, a safety mind-set and team work. In other words it is easy to get right if you want to.

I love the way you characterise the comments of the other protestors as "self-serving" but do not comment on actions of gardai, once the guy begins to have a seizure and they realise that they are on camera. The tender and quite beautiful moment when a gard lovingly places a hand on the man's torso in a gesture of tenderness nearly brought a tear to the eye. But then I recalled the image of the self-same gards dragging the man across the ground with his head bouncing on the concrete a few moments later.

You also make reference to "the crowd". Perhaps I am missing something but the number of people I saw on the clip would hardly constitute a crowd. I've had more people in my house for dinner.

I wondered for a while how a person could view that clip and then write a post supporting the gardai.

Then I noticed your spelling, punctuation and sentence-structure. Are you a gard yourself?

I didn't see any head bounce off concrete. I see not even a reddening of the face not alone a scratch. Do we know for certain the Gardaí knew he was having an epileptic fit or did they think they were removing a violently resisting protestor. Once they did realize I thought they acted correctly. They were polite to anyone who was making a bollix of himself and just getting in the way.

[piggi]

It may come across as a bit heavy-handed and rough, but has anyone here tried to move someone who is having a seizure? I have, so I know how difficult it is to ensure you don't cause any further harm to them. You can't predict how they will move, and while it may have been best to leave him, letting him stay in the middle of the road clearly wasn't an option.

What were the other options?

Gee, when you put it that way I guess maybe the gardai really were looking out for the poor guy's well-being.

As you say, what were the other options?

Hmmm .....

Oh, yes!

I've got it!

I've thought of an alternative!

How about NOT DRAGGING HIM ACROSS THE GROUND BY HIS HEAD?

FFS

[Lara Mills]

Gee, when you put it that way I guess maybe the gardai really were looking out for the poor guy's well-being.

As you say, what were the other options?

Hmmm .....

Oh, yes!

I've got it!

I've thought of an alternative!

How about NOT DRAGGING HIM ACROSS THE GROUND BY HIS HEAD?

FFS

I notice you've also left out the rest of my post explaining why they might have done what they did.

As I explained in that post, it is very difficult to move someone who is having a seizure. I've tried before and it's difficult - especially when you are in a situation like the police were. When I tried it, there was me and a friend trying to move another friend. We were in a kitchen at the time, and we just had to move him away from the counters into the middle of the floor. Only a few feet, but it was damn hard.

It seems to me that you are suggesting they leave him in the middle of a road, where protesters were crossing (and cars might come by, if the road isn't closed), and do nothing about it.

Wouldn't people then cry out that they don't give a shit about people if they let a man have a fit in the road?

[piggi]

I see not even a reddening of the face not alone a scratch.

So that's the new standard for policing, is it?

If you don't see a reddening of the face it is acceptable to drag a man across a road with his head dragging across the ground?

Do we know for certain the Gardaí knew he was having an epileptic fit...

Ah, so manhandling a person in that way is ok so long as he isn't having a seizure. Got it.

... or did they think they were removing a violently resisting protestor.

The only violence I saw on that clip was from the gardai and directed at the protestors. I saw nothing to suggest the reverse.

Once they did realize I thought they acted correctly.

Once they realised that they had brutalised an innocent and unwell man, and were being filmed, they stopped physically manhandling the protestors. If they had acted correctly, as you claim, why did they stop clearing the road?

There were sufficient numbers of gards present to both assist the epileptic man and continue to clear the road. So, why did they stop clearing the way?

Because they knew that they were in the wrong, that's why!

Why did they try to prevent the man's friends (perhaps family?) assisting him?

Because they wanted to control what happened to him next.

They were polite to anyone who was making a bollix of himself and just getting in the way.

I would love it if you could please point out some examples of the gards being polite to the protestors.

Oh, and by the way, peaceful protestors are not "making a bollix" of themselves. They are protesting in public, which is their right. And if they block the road, the gardai have the right to clear the road - but they are obliged to follow strict protocols when using force against peaceful protestors. It is clear from the clip that they overstepped the mark, big time, in this regard.

[piggi]

I notice you've also left out the rest of my post explaining why they might have done what they did.

As I explained in that post, it is very difficult to move someone who is having a seizure.

Lara, it would be a very different board if each poster replied to every aspect of every posting.

You appear to be taking the line that the gardai were trying to help the poor man because he was having a seizure.

You seem to think that their objective was to move someone who was unwell to a safe location, off the road.

Strange, then, that he is left lying in the road following this heroic act by the boys in blue.

There is also the smll matter of dragging him roughly across the street while his head scrapes along the concrete.

Now, Lara, I'm not a doctor myself but I feel safe in guessing that this is not the absolutley best way to assist a person who is having a seizure.

As every gard learns in his first-aid training, you do not move the person unless it is unavoidable. You clear their airway and roll them into the "recovery" position, if possible. Apart from that you just give them plenty of air and reassure them.